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Ephemeral Beings in Scion 2E

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  • Ephemeral Beings in Scion 2E

    In Chronicles of Darkness are specific category of entities - Ephemeral Beings. They are various ghosts, spirits, angels, astral entities and many, many other 'immaterial, sentient' things - connected by main mechanics, and subdivided by particulars of each 'race'. Are things like that in Scion or planned for it? At least ghosts are very popular beings in mythologies. Maybe those entities will be in Companion, Demigod or Bestiary? Or just use CoD mechanics, as both game systems are so similar in their core?
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 08-03-2019, 07:11 PM.

    My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
    LGBT+ in CoD games

  • #2
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Or just use CoD mechanics, as both game systems are so similar in their core?
    The answer will never be this. CoD is actually not similar to Scion in any way beyond the most superficial. For the future, never assume that the answer to any Scion question will be "Basically WoD."

    Because Onyx Path doesn't own WoD, but does own Scion. Legally they have to keep the lines between them as distinct as possible.

    Also, I imagine one could brew up a Denizen Path for various kinds of spirits, but I doubt Scion will ever give any official mechanics for Angels, as the official line is usually pretty quiet on anything Abrahamic.

    I think Hero or Origin talks about rough classifications of kinds of undead. The thing is that you may need to flavor them based on your afterlife because shockingly different cultures have different ideas on what ghosts are and how the soul works.

    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.


    • #3
      While I wouldn't be surprised to see various things like ghosts or demons in future (perhaps near future) supplements, I don't think there's a need to go the CofD route.

      The Scion antagonist building system is already sufficient for doing these even if you might have to home brew some Qualities and Flairs to pull off a specific concept. I guess you could also do up a Denizen Path for them, but it's probably not the best idea of a player character accessible option (though a Denizen path for people that have non-physical entities as parents could certain be a thing).


      • #4
        First, if the idea is add them as Adversaries, just add an Ephemeral quality and require a certain quality to hit it. Demigods and God’s usually dela with imaterial beans as if them were material, no matter what, so this kind of worry is almost futile for Demigod and Gods, and even for a good number of Heroes.

        For player character it’s another question, but as most of the adversaries that would not be able to hit them would be trivial anyway. The capacity to cross barriers and even “step sideways” is quite easy to achieve with marvels, so it’s not a real big deal to be a Denizen that is immaterial.

        TLDR: Not a big deal, implement as wished because the rules will cover you.


        • #5
          I'm rather fond of CoD general Ephmeral Entity mechanics - i. e. simple Attributes ( Power, Finesses, Resistance), Rank ( that is basiclly Legend in Scion) and Ban and Banes for Ephemerals. I could even use Manifestations, but I'm not really sure if we need those beside 'being is immaterial' and 'being is physical'. Things like that can be recreated with Storypath and Scion mechanics?
          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 08-03-2019, 08:45 PM.

          My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
          LGBT+ in CoD games


          • #6
            In terms of these kinds of entities as antagonists, I'd imagine there would be a Flair or Quality to do so.

            Thoughts ripple out, birthing others


            • #7
              Actually i think the antagonist build is quite similar to the way ephemeras are built in CoD.
              Instead of only 3 attributes you have an even simpler 3 pools (Primary, secondary and desperation) depending on what your ephemera will be good at.
              Then give the incorporeal quality (its in hero i think) some other qualities and flairs. Like the Life drain flair would work out well in this concept.
              Set to an appropriate archetypr and Voilà your ghost/demon/thingy is built.

              Currently running: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 2year old daughter and a newborn son.


              • #8
                At the end of the day, I don't think a class of immaterial beings really has a place in Scion. It works in CoD because the assumption is that there's a coherent structure to the spirit worlds that all ephemeral beings need to conform to. In Scion, every mythology is its own thing. And, as other people have pointed out, we don't need a stripped-down mechanic to handle them, because all Antagonists have a stripped-down system to begin with.


                • #9
                  Is there a way for mirroring Bans and Banes for Antagonists in Storypath engine - or general Weakness ideas?

                  My stuff for Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E & BtP
                  LGBT+ in CoD games


                  • #10
                    I mean... There's the Vulnerability Flaw in Origin.

                    Originally posted by Origin, Page 149
                    Choose a source of damage — for example, fire, salt, silver, etc. When the Antagonist takes any damage from this source, mark a second Health box as well. If attack is a critical strike, mark four Health boxes instead of two
                    Like with my first answer, I assumed you meant them as PC concepts. As antagonists, they're piss-easy and you definitely don't need a separate book to make those kinds of beings. Like, if you haven't checked the Antagonist Building section of Origin and Hero, maybe give them a look.

                    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.


                    • #11
                      'Ghost' and 'demon' as examples are really just not unified categories. A Greek shade is going to operate on ENTIRELY different rules than an Egyptian ba or a Japanese yurei, which also are going to operate entirely differently from each other.

                      Demons, likewise. A daimon of Greece, a galla of Mesopotamia and Oxface are all very, very different beings. (Hell, there's often subdivisions of demons within a religion that will operate on different rules.)


                      • #12
                        In all fairness, the CofD ephemeral entities rules are a baseline set of rules for a broad class of beings all of which have unique rules layered on top of it. There are special rules that only apply to ghosts, not to angels, or spirits, or stuff that is more unique to the other gamelines. There's even overlapping names to indicate certain things are mechanically distinct but would be a bit a lot blurrier to people in universe. The CofD has ghosts, ghost mages, and hedge ghosts for example. They're all ephemeral entities called ghosts no less, but also each is different from the other.

                        On the other side, Scion isn't going to have radically different rules for different cultural expressions of the concept of a ghost. Scion is going to have a ghost template antagonist that you're expected to reskin as appropriate. You'll swap one Quality for another, or qualify a Flair differently, or use a different expression of a Flaw; not reinvent the wheel each time.

                        The fact that both essentially operate on the same model of, "take these baseline rules, customize to taste," is precisely why Scion doesn't need to have the CofD ephemeral entities rules ported over. They'd be redundant.