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The Rules Nuts and Bolts

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  • The Rules Nuts and Bolts

    I would like some opinions on the crunch of the Sardonyx Storypath rules. How do they compared and contrast to the Post God Machine revision CofD style Storytelling rules set?

    Are there mechanical similarities? Are there rules options or subsystems a Storytelling rule user would find useful? If someone came from playing a Storytelling game what assumptions would they need to watch so as not to trip over a new rules set?


    I used to be Median but life has made me Mean.

  • #2
    The initiative slots concept is something ill definitely be using in Chronicles of Darkness games and maybe even in DnD


    Completed campaign: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 3 year old daughter and a 1 year old son.

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    • #3
      OK, so, starter question on clarity:

      One of the things about the Storypath system, is that it's meant to be more of a core rules engine that's modified for each individual game line. It's not like the CofD where there's the same core rules between Requiem and Forsaken. Scion, Trinity, and the future releases all utilize the core rules in different ways. Scion and Trinity have slightly different specialty rules as a fairly simple example. So what someone coming from the CofD to Scion as to worry about assumption-wise is different from coming from CofD and going to Trinity.

      Do you want us to just focus on the very general aspects of the Storypath system (and we're in the Scion forums because there isn't a single Storypath forum)? Or specifically the Scion implementation of them?

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      • #4
        Both? Either is good Both is great. I have not seem much of either book yet. I was sort of surprised there wasn't a general Storypath thread. I played some Scion 1E because it was close enough to Exalted 2E that it was easy to learn despite the differences in system. Importing several Exalted rules hacks to Scion when I played before.


        I used to be Median but life has made me Mean.

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        • #5
          OK.

          So... in general if things are called the same thing in Storypath as CofD, they're going to work in basically the same way.

          However there's a lot of things that aren't shared between the systems, so even with that base-line familiarity, there's stuff that can throw you off.

          The biggest hurdles I'd imagine:

          1) Storypath's default system is much more abstract than CofD. There's less Skills, there's less ways to modify Skills. There's a much higher reliance on "fill-in-the-blanks," where the system gives you a general idea and you need to make up the specifics (ex: The Professional Training Merit in the CofD requires you to fill in a bunch of blanks to know what it applies to, but that's how a lot of important things in Storypath work). Coming up with combinations of Skill and Attributes that work even if not how you might have done it in the CofD is definitely a thing. Do not count on an equivalent to Merits to shore this up (Trinity does with Edges, while Scion's Birthrights don't really do that).

          2) For CofD players that haven't played 1e Trinity, 1e Scion, or Exalted are going to have to adapt to the difficulty of rolls being expressed in a number of successes to roll instead of a dice-pool modifier.

          3) The Momentum system is one of the biggest new things, that doesn't have a direct analog; as it's a purely metacurrency. It mostly replaces Willpower, but doesn't reflect and in-universe resource like that. Momentum is usually generated by failing rolls, or things that would cause Beats in CofD for negative consequences to things like Conditions or accepting social influences, and spent on some abilities or to increase your dice-pool.

          4) Scale and Tier will take some getting used to, but the mechanical impacts aren't too hard to understand the theory behind.

          5) The very concept of Paths is a big deal. This is another fill-in-the-blanks place. Character creation most heavily revolves around defining three Paths for your character (usually some combination of past, present, primary social group beyond the other PCs). Paths set your starting Skills instead of just spending dots, Paths determine things like what stuff your characters have, a circle of NPCs you can consult for things that would be Merits in CofD like Contacts or Allies.

          6) Mixed actions (multiple actions in one turn) and Complex actions (what CofD would called extended actions) aren't going to be shockingly difficult to grok, but easier if you've played more than just CofD.

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          • #6
            Well, the Trinity Core came out and I bought it. I like what I'm seeing. However, there is so little in the section on Scale. This seems like a pretty core part of the mechanics that should have been fleshed out more. Is there something that I'm missing where it is covered in more depth? You know classic White Wolf style where the rules are hidden in the description of a character or something?





            I used to be Median but life has made me Mean.

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            • #7
              Scale rules are the ones most spread across all the books.

              Core have the base idea, nothing very clear, in the scale section, and some stuff when talking about vehicles (the ones in Core that really use it).

              Aeon have a small addition when talking about 6dot psi powers basically, but also use it a little more when talking about size of objects and Telekinesis (also other psi powers that handle objects).

              Aberrant is the one dealing with Scale for real, but still only on Manuscript, with a lot of changes to happen (already announced). Scale is probably the most abstract concept in the game, and there are lots of references to it that are a bit contradictory or referencing to older and abandoned ideas of it, what makes it more confusing.

              My suggestion, at least when dealing with Core and Aeon, 1 Scale = 2 enhancements or +2 difficulty, depending on where are you at the scale end, so if there is a 2 scale difference, it grants 4 enhancements or +4 on difficulty. When to use it? When the difference is too big to be presented a simple enhancement or complication, nothing that we deal on our daily life, nothing that most of the characters deal on regular games, when you talk scale you are talking things epic, fighting dragons (Scion) or people capable of juggle cars jumping hundreds of meters or running as fast as a car.


              The proper answer to “Hello There” is, obviously, “General Kenobi”.
              Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
              https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product.../Fists-of-Flux

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              • #8
                Hi is this the Trinity forum? Like this would be a good place to ask about Scale as it applies to Scion.


                Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                • #9
                  Is the Description in Scion more in depth than in Trinity? I'm trying to get a feel for the core mechanics of the system as I stated before. Perhaps Scale is that differ between lines that an explanation of it from one line is completely inapplicable to the other?

                  If the rules are that setting dependant, it's not something I can use really. So i'm tossing money in a pit at this point. I hope not I hope there is some descriptive text of what constitutes the various levels of scale in some Storypath book somewhere like how I found the rules for WoD multiple actions in the weapon section of Dark Ages vampire.


                  I used to be Median but life has made me Mean.

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                  • #10
                    They're similar, but not the same. Trinity's Scale starts one higher to deal with some of the shapeshifting stuff turning you small. Aberrant esp. in Trinity (which uses Scale the most so far) is also more specific in the "kinds" of Scale you can have, where Scion is more loose about it.

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                    • #11
                      Thanks Arms this looks like the information I need. I'm not exactly happy it was done that way. I would have preferred the base system be more unified to lower the learning curve when moving from setting to setting.
                      If I like the more firm examples in Aberrant then I can use that as in my own games for Scion so it might be worth picking up. Dependant on my experience with the other rule set I would I could for example tell the players to use the examples in this for how I handle scale at my table.


                      I used to be Median but life has made me Mean.

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                      • #12
                        Scion deal with scale is even more loose than in Trinity. In Scion, at least for Hero level, I would embrace the Scale = 2 enhancement or +2 difficulty when it applies. When you reach 3 or more scales difference it’s just a unresistable force or an unmovable object (overwhelming scale).

                        We will have more detailed scale rules in Demigod for sure, as we had in Aberrant, as Demigods can rise their scale further than heroes (to the overwhelming status for sure).


                        The proper answer to “Hello There” is, obviously, “General Kenobi”.
                        Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                        https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product.../Fists-of-Flux

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                        • #13
                          The thing is, Scale 4 in Trinity doesn't necessarily mean the same thing as Scale 3 or Scale 4 in Scion. The lines between where Scale changes is different between the two because that's how the games work.

                          The two use Storypath, but there's just enough difference between the two that I kind of hesitate to do more than ballpark between the two.


                          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Avrjoe View Post
                            I would have preferred the base system be more unified to lower the learning curve when moving from setting to setting.
                            The mechanics of what Scale does is the basically the same, and is exactly the same for Dramatic Scale.

                            The differences are in, as mentioned, the default assumptions about what grants Scale and what the lines between levels of Scale are. Trinity's more delineated and in a sense grounded in these definitions, because Trinity is dealing with a pulpy sci-fi base ideal. Trinity is, in general, a more granular than Scion for similar reasons. Scion's more flexible because it's meant to feel more mythological.

                            In Aberrant, if you were doing something like the Fantastic Four vs. Galactus, Galactus gets massive Scale advantages in most efforts to drive the story towards needing Reed Richard's super-intelligence powered devices to even have a chance against him.

                            In Scion, despite Thor vs. Jormungandr seeming a similar match up, Scale needs to work in a fashion that makes this a fair fight. Thor is supposed to be able to fight Jormungandr directly despite their differences in size.

                            Thus the differences.

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                            • #15
                              In Scion it’s more about intention and concept and Trinity is more about actions and effects. In Scion you can get a scale on “defending the gates” and it would apply on al your action on that intention, while Trinity you have an scale 2 tank shooting an heavy weapon that works as an scale 3, capable of damaging a small ship, but can’t hold a defence better.

                              I was really disappointed at first moment on this discrepancy, but later I got the idea behind it and it’s all about the game you are playing. I still prefere the Trinity stile is scale, but Scion attend the need of playing a legendary being much better.


                              The proper answer to “Hello There” is, obviously, “General Kenobi”.
                              Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                              https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product.../Fists-of-Flux

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