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[2E] Change of Divine Patron?

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  • [2E] Change of Divine Patron?

    So I wonder how much a hurdle would be in terms of 2E mechanics possibility of changing your Divine Patron ( Parent ) to god of other Pantheon, once or twice per chronicle? I mean, of course, for the God with very similar Purviews between Pantheon A and Pantheon B. You can think here that PCs were 'tricked' to thinking they are Scions of the other God than in reality they are. It comes from idea I would want to use Atlantean Pantheon as 'true' Pantheon of PCs in this chronicle - where players make their characters from normal Pantheons Scions they think they are. Thanks Shadowstripe for this whole idea in the first place!

    Originally posted by Shadowstripe View Post
    To put it simply, the basis for the Campaign, the Atlantean Gods would use the last of their power to infuse their essence into mortals to be reborn as the last generation of Atlantean Scions (basically become what in 2E is Incarnate Scions). Part of this required tracking down the last traces of Atlantean bloodlines with in the world (even the combined might of all the Pantheons couldn't completely wipe out all traces of Atlantis, as some had escaped to other cultures before the corruption of Atlantis and had remained hidden within those cultures). This scattered the would be Scions initially, so as to escape initial notice of both the Titans and the Gods that still sought to keep Atlantis from rising (and potentially dooming the world again). These reborn Atlantean Gods would have to find each other, reclaim their lost birthright and avoid their enemies to regain the power they once had... starting off as Heroes. Not only would the Titans be after them (to corrupt the essence of the Gods they couldn't before), but also the other Pantheons too (or rather their Scions tasked with making sure that Atlantis remained but a forgotten memory). It was going to be an epic game, where the players would be tempted by power, hunted for crimes their ancestors had committed and have to choose whether to remain true to the Gods they had been or become something different (while they may have the essence of the Atlantean Gods within them, they were not those Gods themselves, but new incarnations, free to choose their own path, for good or ill).

    My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
    LGBT+ through Ages
    LGBT+ in CoD games

  • #2
    Basing my reply on the Emanuel Monterno character found in Scion: Origin (and in a few other places).

    This is a Scion of Xiuhtechutli... one of the Gods of the Teotl (Aztec) Pantheon, but not one that has actually been given any information in either Origin or Hero. As explained in the Side Bar on pg. 86 of Origin, all a Scion really inherits from their "Parent" is a Single Calling and a Purview... at least initially.

    Overall, the idea that they actually belong to another Pantheon will be more of a plot point than anything actually mechanical. Unlike in 1E where there were some loose rules that had to be carefully followed for the Ichor in a Scion to be permanently altered to being like that of an Adopted Parent, this doesn't seem to be the case any more... in that a Scion will always be the child of their True Parent or Patron (though this might change with new supplements). A Scion of Poseidon will always be a Scion of Poseidon, even if they are raised to believe they are the Scion of Susano-O.

    How this plays out is likely to play out depends if you are starting out at the Origin or Hero levels of play. At Origin level, the Character's sole Calling will be like that of their true Parent... though one that resembles one of their Adopted Parent as closely as possible. In the above case, the Scion of Poseidon raised by Susano-O would likely have the Guardian or Hunter Calling as those come very close to being like Susano-O's Warrior Calling. At the Hero level, chances are that their upbringing with their Adopted Parent has given them one of that's parent's outlook on life... but part of their nature will still reflect their true parentage. This can best be shown by the character selecting Callings from both their True and Adopted Parents. Of course, the closer the two Parents are in nature (if they actually share a Calling in common) this becomes easier, as the Scion will see in their Adopted Parent a similar nature they got from their True Parent.

    Purviews are were things get a little stickier. All Heroic Scions get one of their True Parent's Purviews as an inherent connection... in that they can draw upon this Purview without the need for a Relic. This Purview should probably be one that their Adopted Parent also has... as not having this in common is likely to tip the Scion off rather quickly that something isn't quite right. The more Purviews the True and Adopted Parents have, the easier it likely will be to maintain the story that the Scion is actually the Adopted Parent's true Scion. However, Scions also receive an innate access to their Pantheon's Specific Purview... something that the Adopted Parent isn't likely to have unless they belong to the same Pantheon (which makes it easier to maintain such pretense if the Adoption is within the same Pantheon). Now, not every Scion will draw upon the Purview of their Pantheon Purview... at least not at first, so it is possible to down play this as something the Scion in question just isn't interested in developing. Not every Scion of the Theoi wants to change their shape or the shape of others... and not all Kami can talk the spirits of objects... so it may be some time before our Sussano-O raised Scion of Poseidon will try to talk to the spirits or discover a talent for changing forms (of themselves or others).

    All in all, it will most likely be the discovering of the powers granted by their Pantheon Specific Purview that will initially expose the character's true origin and parentage... though they might also feel a little odd when their inner nature (inherited Calling) doesn't seem to match up with their expected behavior (one of the Callings of their adopted parent). Whether this leads to acceptance of their situation or feeling of betrayal at the deception (intentional or perceived) will depend on both the Scion in question and the adopted parent (and possibly the rest of their adopted parent's Pantheon, depending on whether it was done in secret or with their blessing).

    Of course this only applies to Scions that have a direct connection to their true Parent... either being an actual child of that parent, created by them, an incarnation of them or such. Chosen, especially mortal born Chosen, are the least likely to fall into this category as their Patron is likely taking an active interest in them and would be rather... cross... if another God decided to poach their favorite. This doesn't mean that it can't happen, just that it is likely very rare since most Chosen gain the traits of their Patron at the time of their Visitation... and thus it is very hard for another God to convince them that they are really the Scion of another God.

    So, in the case of the Atlantean Pantheon, depending whether or not your players will be knowledgeable of their true parentage, they might need to have an idea of which Atlantean God they will be descended from. With that in mind, they can then select with of that God's Callings and Purviews they wish to inherit... and from that can decide which God in the other Pantheons would be a suitable fit for their Adoption (ideally having both Calling and Purview in common, but most likely just having the Purview and a similar Calling). After this, you can decide if they are starting off Pre-Visitation or Post-Visitation. If the latter, then they can see if one of their adopted parent's Callings are to their liking for one of their two remaining Callings. These Scions will then get access to the Atlantean Pantheon Purview as an innate ability, but likely have no Boons from it... relying on Boons from their the innate General Purview or from a Purview they have access through a Relic or Guide. If you decide to keep this revelation secret, then you will have to guide the Players towards Gods that have similar Callings and/or Purviews... and help them select the aspects of these that resemble the Atlantean Gods.

    While this might seem like railroading the players, it would be more akin persuading them to aspects that fit their concept, such as if a Player decided they were going to be a Scion of Artemis, you might encourage selections that she might have with the Atlantean Goddess Heshon... another wild goddess known for hunting and darkness. You might encourage the Hunter Calling as it is something both Goddesses share... rather than the Healer Calling as Heshon (iirc) wasn't known for being very nurturing... save to her chosen. For Purviews, you might encourage the Beasts or Wild Purviews... while discouraging the Moon and Health for the same reasons as before. When it comes to Relics, you might suggest Relics that access Purviews that are similar to those of Artemis while also being very fitting to a Scion of Heshon... such as Darkness or even War... and then encourage the taking of Boons from them while discouraging Boons from the Theoi Purview of Metamorphosis. In the end, the Player gets a character that feels very much like a Scion of Artemis but is ready to learn that the character is actually a Scion of the Atlanean Goddess Heshon. The only real problem I see with keeping the eventual reveal from the Players is that it might cause some understandably hard feelings when their character's true origin is revealed... especially if they actually wanted to play a Scion of a given Pantheon and are not receptive of being forced into the Atlantean Pantheon.

    My personal opinion would be to be upfront with your players about your intentions for the campaign and work with them to create the characters... which Atlantean God they will originally be from and which Pantheon and God has adopted them. Working with the players, especially if you want the characters to be clueless of their true origin at the start of play, will generally lead to a more enjoyable campaign than springing this upon them unexpectedly.

    But then, it is your game... do what you think is best for your group.

    There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
    I reject your reality and substitute my own!


    • #3
      To help with this, I have done my best to adapt the Atlantean Pantheon to 2E... at least until we get something a little more official. It is still a rough draft that I may change. If anyone wants to understand my reasoning, let me know and I will explain more (and if you can come up with a better reasoning to change anything, let me know... you might have insight into something I hadn't considered). All that aside... on to Atlantis!

      The Teros*

      Atlantean Gods 2E

      Asset Skills: Science, Technology*
      Pantheon Virtues: Nostalgia vs. Vision*

      Pantheon Signature Purview: Demiurgy (God-Sight and Hypertech Upgrade)*
      Pantheon Motif: Advanced Technology is distinguishable from a miracle.*

      Aeva - God of Time and Death*
      Callings: Creator, Guardian, Luminal
      Purviews: Artistry (Music), Death, Fertility, Forge, Health, Order, Passion (Dread), Stars

      Ytar - God of Space and Void*
      Callings: Creator, Trickster, Sage
      Purviews: Chaos, Darkness, Deception, Epic Strength, Forge, Journeys, Passion (Joy), Stars

      Amnis – Goddess of Hearth and Home
      Callings: Guardian, Healer, Sage.
      Purviews: Earth, Epic Stamina, Fertility, Health, Passion (Compassion), Water.

      Badarus – God of Exploration
      Callings: Leader, Lover, Sage.
      Purviews: Beasts (Sea Snakes), Epic Stamina, Earth, Journey, Prosperity, Water.

      Demosia – Goddess of Secrets
      Callings: Lover, Luminal, Sage.
      Purviews: Beasts (Bats), Beauty, Darkness, Deception, Moon, Stars.

      Heshon – Goddess of the Wilderness
      Callings: Hunter, Luminal, Trickster.
      Purviews: Beasts (Terror Bird), Beauty, Chaos, Epic Dexterity, Passion (Terror), Wild.

      Kuros – God of Travel
      Callings: Leader, Sage, Trickster.
      Purviews: Epic Dexterity, Fortune, Journey, Prosperity, Sky, Stars.

      Skaft – God of Invention
      Callings: Creator, Sage, Warrior.
      Purviews: Artistry (All), Earth, Epic Stamina, Epic Strength, Fire, Forge.

      Versak – God of Law
      Callings: Guardian, Sage, Leader.
      Purviews: Death, Epic Dexterity, Epic Stamina, Epic Strength, Fortune, Order.
      Last edited by Shadowstripe; 10-04-2019, 03:30 PM.

      There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
      I reject your reality and substitute my own!


      • #4
        An okay attempt, Kuros, but it's not like we don't know anything about the Teros in 2e. We've got enough teasers that I was able to put this together

        And we know that their Pantheon Asset Skills are Science and Technology, from this post.

        Also, we have writeups for two of their Gods, new creations. Their names are Aeva and Ytar, they were previewed here. Honestly I think that the only similarities between 1e's Atlantean Gods and 2e's is that some of the names are the same. I wouldn't be surprised if even those names from 1e got huge rewrites to fit the new design that they're going for with the Teros.

        Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.


        • #5
          Okay... I obviously haven't been paying as much attention as I should have with all the developments that have been happening.

          Was basing my conversion on what information that was posted from the Scion 2E Kickstarter, specifically how they would adapt the Atlantean Pantheon from their 1E version as example of how to covert pantheons between Editions and create fictional pantheons.

          I really need to start looking at new developments and improve my search-fu for subjects on this forum.

          Also, I thought that Aeva and Ytar were going to on the level of Titans... like Surtur and Cronus and similar godly beings (but what do I know).

          At any rate, I will update things to reflect this (still keeping what I have until I have reason to remove/change it more).
          Last edited by Shadowstripe; 10-03-2019, 06:28 PM.

          There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
          I reject your reality and substitute my own!


          • #6
            Nah, Aeva and Ytar are genuine Gods in the Teros writeup. My main thing is that I'd expect less an adaptation and more "Burn what we had, start from scratch"

            Edit: Admittedly, I have different information networks so I had an advantage. That's why I made that post, so that people on the forum could get more teasers.
            Last edited by Kyman201; 10-03-2019, 07:27 PM.

            Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
              Nah, Aeva and Ytar are genuine Gods in the Teros writeup. My main thing is that I'd expect less an adaptation and more "Burn what we had, start from scratch"

              Edit: Admittedly, I have different information networks so I had an advantage. That's why I made that post, so that people on the forum could get more teasers.

              Yeah... noticed that now, but when I read up about them when the article came out months ago (after reading it again, I realized I did see it before... just forgot all about it when I was working on the Pantheon write-up) they had a very Titanic feel to them, but yeah... they do look very much like other God write-ups now that I got a closer look. I appreciate the additional information... as I had completely forgotten about the preview article on the Teros. The different information networks that different forum users have access to is what makes compiling information like this so much easier than what a single person could reasonably do.

              However, it does look like Aeva and Ytar are going to be additions to the Pantheon, but both Amnis and Badarus were also named as refugee Gods that lead the people (and other Gods?) that would become the Atlanteans to the island Aeva and Ytar lived on. I will continue to modify the Teros Pantheon above when there is new information available. If anyone has a different opinion on the traits of the Gods that haven't been made official yet (as in official write-up), present your reasoning and if others agree with it (and after listening to my own reasoning for what I chose), I will modify it to any consensus we come to... this is more for a public reference than a vanity project for my own games. Hopefully we will get more official information on the Teros soon from Onyx Path.

              There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
              I reject your reality and substitute my own!


              • #8
                Honestly, given how Companion is proceeding, I think the next tidbit about the Teros we'll get will be when the Companion is released

                Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.


                • #9
                  Probably... but I am still holding out hope for another teaser or two as the project gets closer to completion... we were already teased with a brief look at the Gaul Pantheon. Of course, since they have already done a Teros tease preview... they are less likely to do more... but then hope tends to be a little irrational at times.

                  Still, I am curious if you have any insight on the original Atlantean Gods from 1E that I adapted that we can refine my ideas above with... because while I am pleased with how I adapted them, I will admit that I may have some biases that I might be blind to that an outside pair of eyes might notice and bring to my attention. Simply put, I am asking for a critique so that I can hopefully improve my adaptation and skills. I will of course give my reasoning for what I selected, but I am sure that an honest discussion can refine the pantheon above into something more plausible as a work around until the official adaptation is available.

                  As an additional note... I have just begun to play a Scion of Heshon in a group. She will have the role of an unknowing scout for Atlantis (she does not know her origin) to see if the World is ready for Atlantis to return (though whether it is with the hand of friendship or a conqueror's fist remains to be seen... as does whether my character sides with them or turns against them when their plans for the World become known). The character doesn't know where she is from or who her parents are (rather common for Scions of Heshon in 1E)... just that she is trying to survive in the World as she develops into a Scion. Discovering her Past is one of her main goals... as is finding her place within the World and the Pantheons.

                  There are three types of people in the world... those who can count and those who can't.
                  I reject your reality and substitute my own!


                  • #10
                    I don't really recall much about the 1e Atlantean Pantheon. I recall them... Being there? And I recall Scire being effective but a little dull. Not to the degree of 1e Arete, which personified Boring But Practical. From what teasers we have, Demiurgy sounds much more fun.

                    My main thing is that... I dunno how similar, say, 2e Amnis will be to 1e Amnis. It might be that aside from General Role and Name, the two have entirely different personalities, since Atlantis itself is being rewritten for maximum Jack Kirby New Gods Crystal Supertech Wakanda.

                    That being said... If I get wind of any more tidbits prior to the Companion's release, I'll see if I can share them.

                    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.