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  • Converting from Origin to Hero

    So I'm sorry to say, but going from Origin to Hero is a little unclear, and the rules read as if you are just building straight new characters once your Scion gets their visitation. Can anyone help me untangle the process of taking a character that has some experience at Origin and moving them to Hero?


  • #2
    Okay, assuming you have an Origin character, make these changes:
    • Give them two more Callings, in addition to their one Calling that matches their Patron. This should give you three (3) Callings.
      • Assign four more Calling dots as needed, each Calling has at least one dot. This should result in one Calling at 3 and two at 1, or two Callings at 2 and one at 1.
      • Also, pick Calling Keywords (Hero, Page 191), so you should have five of those.
      • One of those Keywords should be incorporated into your Legendary Title (Hero, Page 191)
    • Pick some more Knacks, four more to account for your gained Dots. The sidebar says to ignore this if you bought some with XP, I'd ignore this because I don't want players to feel like they've wasted their XP.
    • Gain 7 dots of Birthrights. Again, this is in addition to if you picked up some Birthrights from your Origin Finishing Touches (four Birthrights or two Knacks). Or if you've bought new Birthrights from your spent XP. Again, don't want my players to feel like they've wasted their XP.
    • Pick an Inherited Purview from your Patron, in addition to your Pantheon Signature Purview and whatever Birthrights you get from Guides and Relics you picked from your Birthright dots.
    • Pick Boons. I believe that you should have two (2) Boons by this point.
    • Make a note of your Legend (1), and the Virtues of your Pantheon.
    My golden rule of advancement would be that I'm not gonna make players feel like they've wasted XP. Thus, "If they already bought some Knacks they don't get more from advancing" I ignore. Because that will leave players going "Oh fuck if I had bought points of Might instead I'd have more Might and the same number of Knacks"
    Last edited by Kyman201; 11-30-2019, 11:34 PM.


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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    • #3
      Your approach is great. The idea of leveling the character knacks and br when they reach Hero is sad for the players that spent their XP or their bonus points on it during origin.

      I would go for a second option that is refunding XP spent on Knacks and Birthrights, it gives flexibility.

      We can’t force players to evolve this or that way, if you give the option to pick something that will be just a waste of XP, you should return the XP or stack the new stuff with the one they already have.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
        Okay, assuming you have an Origin character, make these changes:
        • Give them two more Callings, in addition to their one Calling that matches their Patron. This should give you three (3) Callings.
          • Assign four more Calling dots as needed, each Calling has at least one dot. This should result in one Calling at 3 and two at 1, or two Callings at 2 and one at 1.
          • Also, pick Calling Keywords (Hero, Page 191), so you should have five of those.
          • One of those Keywords should be incorporated into your Legendary Title (Hero, Page 191)
        • Pick some more Knacks, four more to account for your gained Dots. The sidebar says to ignore this if you bought some with XP, I'd ignore this because I don't want players to feel like they've wasted their XP.
        • Gain 7 dots of Birthrights. Again, this is in addition to if you picked up some Birthrights from your Origin Finishing Touches (four Birthrights or two Knacks). Or if you've bought new Birthrights from your spent XP. Again, don't want my players to feel like they've wasted their XP.
        • Pick an Inherited Purview from your Patron, in addition to your Pantheon Signature Purview and whatever Birthrights you get from Guides and Relics you picked from your Birthright dots.
        • Pick Boons. I believe that you should have two (2) Boons by this point.
        • Make a note of your Legend (1), and the Virtues of your Pantheon.

        My golden rule of advancement would be that I'm not gonna make players feel like they've wasted XP. Thus, "If they already bought some Knacks they don't get more from advancing" I ignore. Because that will leave players going "Oh fuck if I had bought points of Might instead I'd have more Might and the same number of Knacks"
        One way to make them think they haven't wasted the XP is to go the Warhammer route with advancement and trappings. Before you could enter a different class profession you had to complete the old class (by getting all the available advancements) and getting the trappings (a noble title, a kind of weapon, a pirate ship, etc) of the new class.

        So, in this case have the player have at least 7 dots of Birthrights and 7 Knacks. Then they get their first point of Legend by completing a short, long and band term aspiration. And at that point or shortly after, they get their visitation because they've damned well earned it by showing that they're Heroes.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by johntfs View Post

          One way to make them think they haven't wasted the XP is to go the Warhammer route with advancement and trappings. Before you could enter a different class profession you had to complete the old class (by getting all the available advancements) and getting the trappings (a noble title, a kind of weapon, a pirate ship, etc) of the new class.

          So, in this case have the player have at least 7 dots of Birthrights and 7 Knacks. Then they get their first point of Legend by completing a short, long and band term aspiration. And at that point or shortly after, they get their visitation because they've damned well earned it by showing that they're Heroes.
          Trouble with that is that at Origin they're limited to buying Knacks from one Calling.

          And the Birthrights they buy, if they give Purview access, don't give Origin characters Purviews. So for most of the time they'll have a lot of benefits they can't access because they're not Heroes yet, which is another kind of "This feels like wasted experience"

          No, this may work for Warhammer but it won't work for Scion.
          Last edited by Kyman201; 12-03-2019, 04:41 PM.


          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post

            Trouble with that is that at Origin they're limited to buying Knacks from one Calling.

            And the Birthrights they buy, if they give Purview access, don't give Origin characters Purviews. So for most of the time they'll have a lot of benefits they can't access because they're not Heroes yet, which is another kind of "This feels like wasted experience"

            No, this may work for Warhammer but it won't work for Scion.
            It could if you stretched things a bit. While at Origin they have buy Knacks from one calling. But after the visitation they can shake things up and shift Knacks to different Callings. For Birthrights offer stuff they can't use, they can be traded for those that can be. But if the Origin can get 7 Knacks, 7 Birthrights and accomplishes the 3 tasks, when they get their visitation, not only do they get their Legend point and the rest, they get a second Legend point will all that that entails.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by johntfs View Post

              It could if you stretched things a bit. While at Origin they have buy Knacks from one calling. But after the visitation they can shake things up and shift Knacks to different Callings. For Birthrights offer stuff they can't use, they can be traded for those that can be. But if the Origin can get 7 Knacks, 7 Birthrights and accomplishes the 3 tasks, when they get their visitation, not only do they get their Legend point and the rest, they get a second Legend point will all that that entails.
              Oooor just up their Legend, have the Visitations, gain more Knacks and Birthrights to make it feel like a real jump in power.

              You're making this far more complicated than it needs to be for basically no benefit. If I had to buy seven Knacks from one Calling (basically all the Heroic Knacks in one Calling, for 70 xp) and seven Birthrights (35 XP, and if I want Purviews when I have my Visitation I need to waste dots on things I can't use yet but will Eventually) to go from Origin to Hero i'd probably quit, because getting that much XP would take forever.

              Like if part of your proposed idea seriously involves the step "Buy a bunch of Knacks you won't use then change most of them once you get your Visitation" maybe it's complexity for the sake of complexity.


              Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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              • #8
                Isn’t the easiest fix just “you get a number of additional Knacks with your Visitation to fill out your additional Calling dots, regardless of how many Knacks you’ve already bought. So either 4 Heroic Knacks, 2 Immortal Knacks, or 1 Immortal and 2 Heroic Knacks”?


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                • #9
                  Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                  Isn’t the easiest fix just “you get a number of additional Knacks with your Visitation to fill out your additional Calling dots, regardless of how many Knacks you’ve already bought. So either 4 Heroic Knacks, 2 Immortal Knacks, or 1 Immortal and 2 Heroic Knacks”?
                  Yeah, that's the sentiment I was trying to get across. Apparently unsuccessfully


                  Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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