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My Thoughts on Scion

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  • #16
    I totally agree with Purple Snit.
    I think there is at least something to do about " stop gap" rules for Demigod and God, at very least.
    The structure of the game, give only bit to bit is not reasonable for me. I dont buy anything about Scion because i want all the basic rule before make an investment.
    So i did with Dragon Age, for example.

    Don try to double down critics and unsatisfacted fellow customer, dont work: just sayng.
    In this community, if you have critics you must apologize for feeling unsatisfacted, no one had the right to feel bad for lackness: we , unsatisfacted, are ALWAYS bad and wrong.
    This is another issue, not related to Scion of course.
    Last edited by The Throne; 12-17-2019, 05:35 AM. Reason: More points.


    • #17
      So there are two things being argued here.

      1. That the wait for further games like Demigod and God, will take some time and that can be frustrating.
      On that point i can understand and even, in part, agree with. Especially if the game that interested you more in the setting of Scion was at God or even Demigod rather than Hero or Origin.
      It is perfectly understandable that someone would want these games to come out faster and get to play them. Again, it is perfectly understandable for someone to decide that they will wait for either Demigod or God to come out before buying either (or both) and playing.
      I do not think that most people disagree on this point.

      The other argument is more contentious.

      2. Origin + Hero are an incomplete game because Demigod and God have yet to be released.
      I apologise for my bluntness but this is simply false.
      I can understand why someone would make that mistake tho. Since 1e was released as a 3 part set then its understandable that someone would think that it goes the same with 2e.

      But, plainly speaking, right now this would be the same as saying that the recent God of War is an incomplete game because there is gonna be a sequel released in the future.

      To sum it up, criticism on the releases of the books for the scion universe like if it would be better to wait until Demigod and God is out to release supplements or not can have a valid discussion in my opinion.
      Or even expressing that you feel frustrated for waiting on Demigod and God is, again, perfectly valid.
      But the claim that the game is incomplete is simply false.
      People could've not known that the Demigod and God books are a thing and spend many years playing at the Origin and Hero Tier.

      I have ran a game of Scion (origin then Hero) that lasted about a year.
      And i have several more scenarios to run(some only at Origin, some only at Hero, some progressing from Origin to Hero and one, not very developed so far, "progressing" from Hero to Origin).
      As soon as i have some free time again. Any day now i'm sure.

      Completed campaign: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 3 year old daughter and a 1 year old son.


      • #18
        Simply put..if Hero, Demigod, and God are separate games, not intended to be played sequentially, why is there a basic rulebook (Origin) and then three expansions that are thematically and structurally linked? Why is all the promotional material built around the progressional nature of the game? Again, you certainly can play just Hero (or even just Origin), but if you were drawn in by the Mortal to God progression, the frustration kicks in. Again, you may see it differently, which is perfectly valid. I was speaking for my own frustrations.


        • #19
          Originally posted by Purple Snit View Post
          Simply put..if Hero, Demigod, and God are separate games, not intended to be played sequentially...
          They are. The problem is that this is no longer the only way functional way to approach them. You can play the apotheosis track, or you can decided to just play one tier the whole time. Expanding out the options of the games means a different approach to how the games get made (on top of simply a different reality of making the games).

          We all get the frustration of wanting to play the full apotheosis track but the books are coming out over a long period of time. But that's the reality of the state of things. Your options are to enjoy the non-apotheosis tracks that are now more playable until the rest of the books come out, or wait. Being frustrated that your specific desires aren't being catered to is valid, but also, well, not something we have an responsibility of helping you resolve, because you can let it go and play the game, or play a different game, and have fun. These are games. The world isn't going to end if we don't get Demigod in six months.


          • #20
            I never asked anyone to help me resolve anything; I just wanted to say something that had been on my mind for a while. I bought the first two books, realized it would be longer than I was comfortable waiting before the next volumes came out, and shelved my plans to run something. The unfortunate (and not OP-related) rise in freight costs have made me think about whether I will even buy the next two books at all. I am frustrated by all of this, and wanted to say so, in a reasonable fashion, and see if I was alone in my frustration. It seems I'm not; good to know. What I do from here is up to me, not anyone else. To the civil, thanks for the input.


            • #21
              Eh if you are having issues Purple Snit and it seems like you might be. I know it's not a popular opinion, but honestly if you want something of a rule base then why not go back and play 1e until the new stuff comes out. You know the books are out there for use and such. I am NOT starting an edition war here, just offering an idea to someone who seems like they feel stuck.


              • #22
                I own 1st edition - it's pretty much unplayable without far to much house-ruling. No, I'll just shelve my plans, see what happens with 2nd edition, and play it by ear. Thanks for the response!


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Purple Snit View Post
                  I own 1st edition - it's pretty much unplayable without far to much house-ruling. No, I'll just shelve my plans, see what happens with 2nd edition, and play it by ear. Thanks for the response!
                  You are welcome. It was an idea I offered nothing more.


                  • #24
                    Tossing in my thoughts.

                    As far as Scion having a setback/software glitch.
                    Yes, it sucks it was stalled but I personally think Neils explanation was the best you could ever get in this industry. Which was pretty much, I held it up to do overhauls so I could give you the best product I could and not give you a Scion 2.5 a year later with massive changes to the system. So for my money I’m happy not buying two books instead of one and waiting a while as most kickstarters for me are out of sight out of mind after they get finished. I still jump with joy when they move around on project tracking.
                    It sucks a software glitch hit and made some edits undone. What are we going to do? Not throwing Pazio under the bus but I think Pathfinder 2e already has a longer list on their errata and they can and did spend lots of money big business style. So I’d say a page for each book is not bad at all for a smaller freelance powered part time job people making games they love! Sure I wish it did not happen but I also wish I had superpowers! Also just throwing it in there that I was a day one backer of Scion 2e because I loved 1e dispute a much larger collections of house rules to try to play that game past hero level.

                    I finally started running my game of Scion and I am starting my players out as pre visitation mortals and letting them get a feel for the world before they even meet their parents. So it will be a while before I get near demigod however hearing how they are making each Tier noticeably different and hearing Monica, I think, talk about her work on Demigod and some dice mechanics used to completely feel the change difference between mortals to demigods not only gets me hyped for the next book but makes me take a step back and think how it could be easy to mess up so they are welcome to fine tooth comb that system to get a better play experience out of it.

                    I wish they could have dropped all four main books at once so I could have a reading fest of sweet sweet Ichor dulled goodness, hells ya I do!! However not only is that not possible for a smaller company or is not practical. In 1e it was just extend the numbers up and done. In 2e there is themes, moods and system changes happening that may have benefited from all four books at once or it very well could have caused them to be to alike as in 1e. Ether way hero and origin are still great and will take time to get through unless your lucky enough to be playing daily or power leveling your players.

                    I do have a few critiques on both Hero and Origin because I always have them on any system and or book. The only ones that really apply is that I think both books could use a bit better of a flow to them. They seem more like books made for people who wrote the system vs are learning the system. That could just be me and my interpretation of it, I am dyslexic and it is close enough to the parent system so my brain probably glosses over stuff thinking that it knows this or that when that was actually what has been changed. Some of the layout for headers and sub headers I think could be better but that could just be a completely my preference again. Ether way I am glad these books are here, I think they are damn awesome and as a guy into graphic layout and always has his “that’s not how I’d do it” but does not put out books at all because I am ya to lazy and not dedicated to do this as a job enough I am more then thrilled at what we have!

                    Looking forward to getting my hands on the Scion Companion book for them sweet relic expanded rules and can’t way to throw what little money I have at Demigod, Masks and Dragons!!!


                    • #25
                      I would also say on the solution side you could use some of the crunchy bits from Trinity and some of the soft bits from Scion 1e and say to your players let's brain storm a couple ideas and try some stuff.

                      Could be a one off or a what if game for some time to see what shakes out.

                      Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
                      Current Focus
                      Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
                      Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition


                      • #26
                        Thanks for the suggestions, but having to provide extensive houserules or buy another system, in order to play the game I originally wanted to play, isn't really a route I want to take. I considered first edition (which I own), but just don't have time or inclination to have to cobble together something that works. I don't have issues with second edition's rule system, just the present inability to go beyond Hero level in play.