Perception/notice

[Fuzzykuma]

What set of skills or attributes would you have players roll to hear sounds or see details? Would it be a mix depending on the situation? Int + Occult to notice something is off on a arcane diagram. Cunning + survival for hearing sounds in the woods?

Finally running my first game and my Band I’d Scions are stuck in a sea size town with a ticked off ocean god that has the town blanketed in fog and fish men walking around. They have been looking for clues and trying to use the fog to sneak around the fish men. I’m not really sure what to have them roll to listen or notice movement/

[Kyman201]

It depends on the situation, yeah. Depends on what they're going for, and how they're doing it.

For this situation, you might rethink the framing.

Instead of for just a general "Notice Something", how are they investigating? Is the one with the Hunter Calling used to listening for creatures in the forest? Maybe have them roll Survival+Cunning to listen for the heavy wet steps. This is how I'd probably go if the Fishfolk aren't trying to be particularly stealthy.

Or, maybe flip it. Make the players roll Subterfuge+Physical to try and keep quiet while searching for clues. So THEY have to keep hidden and ahead of the fishfolk. Failure means that the Fishfolk have heard you.

Is it plot-important that they pick up these trails? Are the sounds there to herd the players along? Don't have them roll.

[Maitrecorbo]

Also, for the purpose of spotting ambushes i usually asked my players to roll their highest combat skill and a mental attribute. Successes can then be interpreted in various ways depending on what skill was used and even offer additionnal ingormation.
For example rolling Firearm + Mental could give you "You distinctly smell gunpowder or hear the click of a safety coming off". Which would not only give the info that an ambush is imminent but also that there are guns involved.

My difficulty is more with the attributes, as i have a hard time explaining how one or the other affect the perception.

[Neall]

What set of skills or attributes would you have players roll to hear sounds or see details? Would it be a mix depending on the situation? Int + Occult to notice something is off on a arcane diagram. Cunning + survival for hearing sounds in the woods?

Finally running my first game and my Band I’d Scions are stuck in a sea size town with a ticked off ocean god that has the town blanketed in fog and fish men walking around. They have been looking for clues and trying to use the fog to sneak around the fish men. I’m not really sure what to have them roll to listen or notice movement/

I think part of the issue here is how you're framing it - Int + Occult, Cunning + Survival - when Storypath is Skill + Attribute. As others have said - what are you trying to have them notice? What are their Skills coming into play helping with? If it's fundamentally a passive notice, use one of the Resistance Attributes - Composure, for example. If they're recognizing something instinctively it's Cunning. If they're actively looking and trying to puzzle something out, it's Intelligence.

Trying to diagram out a crime scene where someone came at someone else with a blade? Int + Close Combat, difficulty 2, Complication 2 to notice there was a second person there.

[Fuzzykuma]

So I think my issue was that my brain was thinking CoD or something combining Cunning and Composure or something as a perception check. A bit old older system sticking in my brain.

So if I had a group of scions walking around in a fog covered town trying to avoid and at the same time notice fish people I should probably switch to a single role involving a skill + attribute depending on how the players are going about choosing to do this.

So survival + cunning for a person that is use to being in the woods or using more instincts to guide them and another could roll dexterity + subterfuge as someone more like a thief that is use to walking around quietly and just push in to that role the idea of they failed it could ether me not noticing something or knocking over a trashcans by mistake.

Then if people are just walking around and say someone has a gun hidden under their coat let them roll ...??? Maybe firearms + int?

[Kyman201]

For your Fish Fog scenario, you may want to frame it as a Complex Action, with your players trying to accumulate enough successes on the investigation in a certain amount of rounds. Take too long and the fish folk find them and there's a fight.

But yes, pick the skills for noticing things based on what they're trying to notice.

[Fuzzykuma]

For your Fish Fog scenario, you may want to frame it as a Complex Action, with your players trying to accumulate enough successes on the investigation in a certain amount of rounds. Take too long and the fish folk find them and there's a fight.

But yes, pick the skills for noticing things based on what they're trying to notice.

Never even thought to use it as a complex action. But it is only the third session I’ve run with Story Path so there will always be growing pains.

[Kyman201]

Yeah, trying to digest the entire ruleset in one sitting will lead to madness. I've spent a great deal of time chewing on these rules and I think they work quite well in a number of places. They did make me rethink a number of old habits, spinning off the rules of when you should roll the dice. It's a learning process where you improve by going forward.

And if your players go "Hey but last time we did it this way", it's perfectly fine to fess up with "I'm still learning this system too, so we're going to try it this way-"

I used the Complex Action rules for 'Navigation through the Irish Otherworld' that technically had no maximum number of checks, but the more checks they took meant that they would arrive later in the Mortal World.

But yes, honestly, I'd question how often "Roll to notice a sound" should really be used. Is it something that should come up as often as D&D would have us use it? Does it suit the story to have your players get jumped? If they're actively trying to get a sense of where the threats are, something can be made up, but the GM instinct of "And by the way, could you all roll [check to hear a noise]" may not be the most useful go-to for EVERYTHING.

[Maitrecorbo]

Id have that whenever the players make rolls in the fogs whether navigating or hiding or climbing or whatever you add a complication of 2 or 3 that is "you are spotted"

[Fuzzykuma]

That is another great idea! Complications to buy off!!

Id have that whenever the players make rolls in the fogs whether navigating or hiding or climbing or whatever you add a complication of 2 or 3 that is "you are spotted"

[Fuzzykuma]

I’ve told my players already this is my first run and the rules are likely to change. I’ve read the book cover to cover a few times, as I was a backer for the KS, and have also reread certain systems a few dozen times. The one time I did a major flub o did give the players 1 xp for catching me and helping to discuss the rules so we all remembered them better for next time.

Yeah, trying to digest the entire ruleset in one sitting will lead to madness. I've spent a great deal of time chewing on these rules and I think they work quite well in a number of places. They did make me rethink a number of old habits, spinning off the rules of when you should roll the dice. It's a learning process where you improve by going forward.

And if your players go "Hey but last time we did it this way", it's perfectly fine to fess up with "I'm still learning this system too, so we're going to try it this way-"

I used the Complex Action rules for 'Navigation through the Irish Otherworld' that technically had no maximum number of checks, but the more checks they took meant that they would arrive later in the Mortal World.

But yes, honestly, I'd question how often "Roll to notice a sound" should really be used. Is it something that should come up as often as D&D would have us use it? Does it suit the story to have your players get jumped? If they're actively trying to get a sense of where the threats are, something can be made up, but the GM instinct of "And by the way, could you all roll [check to hear a noise]" may not be the most useful go-to for EVERYTHING.

[wyrdhamster]

So typical roll for 'I want to look in to dark room' would be Cunning + Composure ( like in CoD ) or other combination?

[Maitrecorbo]

Investigating is in the mental arena id say.
The attribute would depend on the approach taken.
- I throw everything on the ground in thr hope of finding something. (Power : Intelligence)
- I make sure everything stays in its place while i look for possible hiding spots. (Finesse : Wits)
- I meticulously take my time to comb everything gradually. (Resistance : Resolve)

As for the skill it depends.
Id use Integrity or even Culture as a baseline, but finding a book in a library shelf would be Academic. If there are altars and stuff like that then Occult would make sense.
Its for the player to tell me (the storyguide) what makes sense for their character here.

[Kyman201]

So typical roll for 'I want to look in to dark room' would be Cunning + Composure ( like in CoD ) or other combination?

Aren't Cunning and Composure both Attributes? Generally you don't roll two Attributes in Scion 2e. You'll need a Skill, which as Maitre notes can vary depending on what you look for.

If you're casing the joint for Crime stuff, Subterfuge would be my go-to. If you're looking for signs of a fight, use Close Combat. Signs of curses or weird things would be Occult.

[kurasu]

I very much agree with Maitrecorbo on how to do a 'perception' check. In the 2 games I've run, I told my players that a roll is a certain arena (or approach, it depends on the story, but mental is the go to for investigations/noticing things) and given them usually a choice of 2 skills to roll with it, but a few times I've had a player spin a good enough reason to use a different skill and I have let them do it.