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[2ed, Homebrew, New Pantheon] The Enondeara of the Tupi-Guarani

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  • #16
    I have a question about Jurupari. My perception of him, based on the other write-up, was that one of his definitive character traits was his obsessive, zealous, misogyny. Is there a reason why he wasn't described that way here?

    Also, neither here nor there, but Derekey and Dereveruy are totally the mythological equivalent to the Mario Brothers.

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    • #17
      Jurupari is a complicated figure, because he is a mix of a lot of different myths. I would say there are 3 bigger lines of myths:

      First, he is some form of monster, not dissimilar from an ogre or boogeyman, who lives in the darkness of the night and brings nightmares, with a very varied relation to Anhanga and the Anhangs in general. This version probably was influenced by the Europeans twisting the image of one of the major figures in the native mythology into the devil.

      Second, he is the son of the Sun, born from a virgin mother, which aged very quickly and became a wise man who taught the new laws to the tribes. These laws include a change from a matriarchal society to a patriarchal society, with a considerable amount of rules for women, forbiding them from taking part in many aspects of the society, like rituals they can't partake, secrets they can't know, and even musical instruments they can't even see, most under penalty of death. In some stories, he even kills his mother, usually by accident, when she tries to spy on the meeting of the men. In some of those, the story ends with him going to look for a perfect woman to his father. I don't remember the adjectives he used right now, but it was something on the lines of "I am looking for a woman who isn't curious, vain or make gossip.".

      Thirdly, again miraculously born, not necessarily the son of the Sun, but quickly age and when talking with a group of leaders, the women refused to make to him the customary drinks. He cursed them, forbidding them from the same stuff as in the second version, and he ate their children. He ends up dead, his body becoming the tree from which the instruments are made.

      Having in mind those three lines, and that there they themselves vary a lot, it is hard to have a grasp on what he is, even in his relation to women. In some he is just punishing women for their mistakes, others it is just the rules Guaraci gave him, but in both it seems more related to the societal position of the women in those societies, which are sadly quite misogynistic themselves.

      I am not denying this part of him, mind you, but he is far more than a misogynistic god. He is a legislator, he is a monster, he is a god who was twisted to the point his own followers couldn't recognize him. He is the one who lived and died as a defender of rules that with each passing day seem to be more and more forgotten. In many versions, when he kills/petrify his mother, the reason that he didn't bring her back to life is that this is the punishment for the laws he brought, and even him is under those laws. We decide to focus on his aspects of law-bringer monstrous figure, which seems to be more prevalent in his character, presenting him as a more tragic/radical figure, broke into mantles in a world that with each passing day destroy more and more of what once he dedicated his life for and willing to do what is necessary bring it back to glory, even if it means eating those he was supposed to help. A "live long enough to see yourself became the villain" kind of scenario, now that I think about it.

      As the guy who once created a Discussion Topic on this Forum to discuss this very kind of complicated issue in mythology, I learned that not everybody wants this kind of stuff direct on their face, after all this is supposed to be fun before anything else. So if we can present it in a respectful, complete and still engaging way without putting it highly in display, we will. However, for those who still want to know about these more "complicated" aspects of the mythology, we are planning an additional separated section (probably in an entire different pdf) talking about them in more depth, not just from Jurupari (even if he is probably the protagonist of that section). Not sure how many people will want it, but I feel it is necessary for the sake of completeness, if nothing else.

      And I never thought about Derekey and Dereveruy like that, but it makes a lot of sense. Just that in the game, Mario would start in a permanent "Big Mario" form, and a few more lives than Luigi.
      Last edited by Manbat; 01-17-2020, 02:21 PM.

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      • #18
        This is really cool stuff, man. It touches on a lot of things that currently interest me (since I am living in Bolivia right now). I think you need to put a bit of context of where the Tupi pantheon comes from. Right now it takes a bit of extra research for people not familiar with the region to understand where this pantheon descends from.

        How does the Tupi pantheon intersect with the Incans? Likewise, how do you imagine they fit with more modern Brazilian/Andean folklore like Saci?

        Also, I would love to see it up on DriveThru/Nexus path. I've published a few things there (under Chris or Christopher Gunning), if you want some help or advice, please feel free to reach out.


        Weaponized Ink:
        Werewolf: The Savage Age!

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Coyoteintx View Post
          This is really cool stuff, man. It touches on a lot of things that currently interest me (since I am living in Bolivia right now). I think you need to put a bit of context of where the Tupi pantheon comes from. Right now it takes a bit of extra research for people not familiar with the region to understand where this pantheon descends from.
          Glad to hear you liked it.

          Cool that you live in Bolivia. Not quite sure how much of the indigenous communities of Bolivia is Tupi-Guarani, but hopefully it helps to work with them.

          On the final version I plan to add a page explaining the more social aspects of the followers, how does the religion work, where do they live, where do they come from, etc. This should cover the basics of any research about them, in very general terms.

          Originally posted by Coyoteintx View Post
          How does the Tupi pantheon intersect with the Incans? Likewise, how do you imagine they fit with more modern Brazilian/Andean folklore like Saci?
          I didn’t want to try a guess on the Incan pantheon, as I know very little about them and I am waiting up for the Demigod book to see how they are in Scion. But if I would make an educated guess, I would say amicable relations:

          The Incan look at the Enondeara from above, both literally and metaphorically, seeing them as uncivilized partners, better to have as friends than as enemies (at least until they can conquer them). The Enondeara seem them as neighbors too, but would probably not even notice the difference in social status, having little of it themselves. They might have issues grasping all the social norms and would be annoyed if they tried to push those into them, but the Inca would know better them to try too much. They would be happy to share Scion groups every now and then, might send gifts every once in a while, with Tume Arandu serving as the best ambassador, but the lack of social etiquette and regards towards social status from the Enondeara would make their official meetings more on a need bases. They probably had some fights a long time ago, but it was probably forgotten since the coming of the Europeans, and they might have some rivalries between gods looking to establish themselves as “the best in South America”. Probably from Derekey’s part.

          Can’t say a lot about Andean folklore, but on Brazilian folklore, they would have mixed relations. They wouldn’t be surprised by the existence of things that they don’t fully understand were came from, as they themselves are kind of confused about that, and would be fond of observing and interacting with different beings of folklore whenever they end up meeting. Saci they probably don’t interact much, unless the Saci ends up messing up with something important, like racing-horses blessed by Derekey or something like that, but Iara is quite fond of the Botos (lovers and seducers who shapeshift into river dolphins, also known as Encantados) and Nhandessy would be particularly unhappy with the Cuca (a famous alligator-witch) and the Papa-Figo (a kidnapper of misbehaving children) for kidnapping and eating kids.

          I hope to publish those interactions more on a second project of mine that shows more of the Brazilian Setting as a whole.

          Originally posted by Coyoteintx View Post
          Also, I would love to see it up on DriveThru/Nexus path. I've published a few things there (under Chris or Christopher Gunning), if you want some help or advice, please feel free to reach out.
          I will publish it, certainly, but might take a while. I put something up there already, Treasures and Gifts, but it was on a rougher state than I imagined, and I had to do a bunch of corrections since then, so I am taking my time on this one to iron it as much as possible before putting it out. I also want to add some more things, to make it more interesting, and I just found a source that I really want to read before uploading it, so it will take awhile before that.
          But thanks for the offer, I hope I don’t need, but if I do, I will not hesitate in contacting you.

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