[2E] Pantheon: The Bodiless Powers -- Archangels

[wyrdhamster]

Based on Wikipedia articles on those Archangels…

Barachiel – Blessing – Callings: Creator, Guardian, Sage – Purviews: Artistry, Fortune, Fertility, Order, Prosperity, Sky
Gabriel – Messenger – Callings: Liminal, Guardian, Trickster – Purviews: Beauty, Death, Journeys Order, Sky
Michael – Warrior – Callings: Hunter, Leader, Warrior – Purviews: Artistry, Epic Strength, Fire, Order, Sky, War
Raphael – Healer – Callings: Healer, Lover, Sage – Purviews: Fertility, Health, Journeys, Order, Sky, Water
Ramiel – Vision – Callings: Guardian, Liminal, Sage – Purviews: Artistry, Death, Order, Passion ( Visions ), Sky
Uriel – Repentance – Callings: Guardian, Judge, Warrior – Purviews: Artistry, Beasts, Epic Stamina, Epic Strength, Fire, Order, Sky, War, Wild
Selaphiel – Prayer – Callings: Creator, Healer, Liminal – Purviews: Beauty, Frost, , Fire, Order, Sky, Stars

[Coyoteintx]

Okay! I am riffing on what you all have worked up...

So, for story purposes, I was thinking today about not having a 7th position. The 7th position is vacant -- left behind by a previous archangel for purposes I need to think over. The Vacated 7th seat is an area of contest for the hundreds of lesser angels out there. They seek to gain archangel-ship (-hood?) and have been vying against one another to do so. This is part of the reason the Bodiless Powers arent as aggressive against the other pantheons these days as they once were - they are focused on internal struggles rather than external conquest. Angels who have championed various sects or callings are especially motivated to secure the 7th seat in order to push their pet project to the fore.

So, of the ones y'all have been working up Michael, Gabriel, and Raphael are pretty universal... and particularly appropriate for the Catholic and most Orthodox sects.

Gabriel– Messenger – Callings: Liminal, Guardian, Trickster – Purviews: Order, Beauty, Death, Journeys, Sky
Michael – Warrior – Callings: Hunter, Leader, Warrior – Purviews: Order, Epic Strength, Fire, War, Sky
Raphael – Healer – Callings: Healer, Lover, Sage – Purviews: Order, Passion, Health, Journeys, Water, Sky

Then, I still like Azrael. Mostly because, like Gabriel, he/she has strong connections to Islam. Also, lets be honest, "scion of the angel of death" is a cool character concept and is begging to be played.

Azrael - Death - Callings: Sage, Warrior, Judge - Purviews: Order, Death, Justice, Darkness, Sky


After Azrael, Uriel seems to be the most common. Uriel also has a connection to some Protestant sects, so that helps push him into the seven chairs.

Uriel – Repentance – Callings: Guardian, Judge, Warrior – Purviews: Order, Artistry, Epic Stamina, Fire, Sky, War


...and then maybe Barachiel?

Barachiel– Blessing – Callings: Creator, Guardian, Sage – Purviews: Order, Fortune, Health, Prosperity, Sky


That gives us six, with the the seventh chair open.

For there, we could define a number of angels who are vying for the seventh (some of whom might have sat in the seventh in the past.

Selaphiel – Prayer – Callings: Creator, Healer, Liminal – Purviews: Order, Beauty, Frost, Sky, Stars
Ramiel – Vision – Callings: Guardian, Liminal, Sage – Purviews: Order, Artistry, Death, Passion ( Visions ), Sky
Jereamiel - Protection - Callings: Guardian, Warrior, Sage - Purviews: Order, Darkness, Earth, Epic Dexterity, Epic Strength

Putting Ramiel outside of the seven with the Liminal Calling is interesting.

Order is common to every angel in this workup -- which makes sense. It basically serves as a default pantheon purview... but thats a cop-out and I think the Bodiless Powers should have their own special purview. Maybe something that replaces "sky" in the six archangels and is a bit more appropriate. "Heaven" may be appropriate. 'Sky' is common to all the Archangels in this writeup -- but its not really appropriate. Controlling the weather isnt quite right -- but mastering the heavens (and flight) seems to be more in-theme.

[wyrdhamster]

I like this take with set 6 Archangels and 7th as the power struggle for the all thos that 'could not get to the list'.

When working on my lists I thought there is one large problem with Archengels Pantheon as it is - we do not have Virtues of it. Virtues are that drives Scion Pantheons as factons - they also give games version of gods needed impetus. So it's important.

Myself, I would give Archangels conflict of Communion ( Community?) vs. Ego - all stories of them are about 'doing the right thing' or 'what YHWH commanded' - versus their own, personal desires. With Lucifer as Titan, it points even more clearly that Heavenly Hosts wants for you to forget yours own dreams and plans, 'for the greater good'.

[Coyoteintx]

When working on my lists I thought there is one large problem with Archengels Pantheon as it is - we do not have Virtues of it. Virtues are that drives Scion Pantheons as factons - they also give games version of gods needed impetus. So it's important.

Myself, I would give Archangels conflict of Communion ( Community?) vs. Ego - all stories of them are about 'doing the right thing' or 'what YHWH commanded' - versus their own, personal desires. With Lucifer as Titan, it points even more clearly that Heavenly Hosts wants for you to forget yours own dreams and plans, 'for the greater good'.

Very good point.

I love the idea of "community." Early Christianity focused a lot on that concept and in many ways it seems to have been lost today.

What about a shift in degrees? "Charity vs Egotism" or even "The Mundane vs the Spiritual." The second one may be a bit too broad though. I lean towards "Charity vs Egotism" because it also touches on one of the first core aspects of christianity -- one that many christians still struggle with today. The egotism also puts the angels firmly under a microscope.

[Dataweaver]

I wouldn't phrase it as Egotism, because Christians don't. And if this is supposed to be reflective of Christianity, you should use the Christian lingo as much as possible.

I'm not sure that Righteousness vs. Charity gets it quite right; but for a reduction of Christian virtues to two vaguely conflicting traits, I think you could do a lot worse.

[Mateus Luz]

I would put the “Thrust the higher power” x “do your part” as the virtues. I may be too “outsider” but there is this “we work for god and god is the one that commands us” and at same time there is the do the right thing.

[Dataweaver]

The essence of Righteousness is that “we do as God wills” and “we do the right thing” are synonymous. This is countered with “the Devil will try to deceive you; so don't blindly obey.” Put another way, if there seems to be a conflict between what God is telling you to do and doing the right thing, then either it isn't God who's telling you to do it, or your sense of right and wrong needs work.

But the reason why I think Righteousness and Charity might work well is that when Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was, He answered (paraphrasing) “Love the Lord your God with all your heart; and the second commandment is Love your neighbor as yourself. These are the foundations on which all other commandments are based.” Righteousness would be the first one; Charity would be the second.

[Mateus Luz]

So my way to think is not too far away from your description. But I would use the old saying (not sure if it’s the way you speak it in English) God writes correctly in torn lines. The first side is the love of god, you thrust he will put you in the right place and you have the right tool to solve it, the second side is the love for the people, you will martyr yourself to bring the love of god to your fellows. It’s the opposition, gods will x pure kindness.

the problem with your approach is that they are not really opposed, like the other virtues, you can do the right thing and do charity (in most cases they are the same thing).

[Dataweaver]

Well, yeah. That's because “Virtues exist because Gods in myth are creatures of passion and emotion, and this often leads them astray. They also exist because many pantheons and mythologies feature dual themes playing through them”: Scion: Hero, p.190. The God of Christianity isn't a creature of passion and emotion; so technically, attempting to force the Christian Virtues into a model designed for passionate and emotional gods is going to have some difficulties.

That said, the central premise behind Christianity is that God cannot abide sin, and that no one can measure up to His standards (this is where Righteousness comes in) and all deserve death; but that God so loves the World that He created a loophole that allow those who accept it to receive grace and not receive the punishment they ultimately deserve (this is where Charity comes in). So in a sense, this can be considered a duality of sorts, where you need to strike a balance between living up to impossible standards on the one hand, and exercising forgiveness on the other.

I guess another way to phrase it might be Justice and Mercy; though that's not really quite right either.

[Mike McCall]

I like Mercy and Righteousness. I think it captures the themes you're talking about quite well, and I think they make sense as the Virtues for an angelic pantheon.

[Coyoteintx]

I like Mercy and Righteousness. I think it captures the themes you're talking about quite well, and I think they make sense as the Virtues for an angelic pantheon.

I think I am settling on "charity vs righteousness."

[wyrdhamster]

Returning to the idea - We should totally do this as Storypath Nexus product. Many Scion fans are asking about this kind of thing and would it be much easier to have this 'forged' as fan product and not separated notes on forum. Even as Pay What You Want thing.

Other idea - As Abrahamic religions ARE different - Maybe Bodiless Powers Pantheon have 3 different Virtues pairs for their Saints, etc.? Like 'Mercy vs Righteousness' for Christians, 'Trust vs Dedication' for Jews ("Thrust the higher power” x “do your part” from MatheusLuz idea ) and Islam for I do not know enough to even uproach interpreting it...

[Kyman201]

Returning to the idea - We should totally do this as Storypath Nexus product. Many Scion fans are asking about this kind of thing and would it be much easier to have this 'forged' as fan product and not separated notes on forum. Even as Pay What You Want thing.

The Nexus has a rule against doing Christian-adjacent properties. Like it says 'No monotheistic pantheons' but they mean 'No Abrahamic Pantheons'

Edit: Also on the whole 'Different sets of Virtues' that's possible, but it'd probably be better to like... Instead of one BIG Pantheon that encompasses everything vaguely Abrahamic, see if you could at least make them related but slightly separate Pantheons? I know that at one time someone made an Abrahamic writeup that was a great deal more Jewish than Christian. (Warning: Incomplete and probably won't get updated but it has a lot of what you need)

So you can totally justify a Hebrew Angelic Host Pantheon, something with Islam (I don't know enough about Islam to even guess as the cosmology differences) and some things for Christianity

[Magicjohnny]

Yeah it would probably be better to have at least three separate pantheons(at the very least) that share a Primordial but in different Mantles

[Dataweaver]

I'd be more inclined to go for one Pantheon that's built on what the three main Abrahamic religions agree on, with sub-Pantheons (e.g., the Loa vs. the Orisha) that specialize in individual Abrahamic religions.