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[2E] Pantheon: The Bodiless Powers -- Archangels

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  • Coyoteintx
    started a topic [2E] Pantheon: The Bodiless Powers -- Archangels

    [2E] Pantheon: The Bodiless Powers -- Archangels

    I know I am not the first to try to take on Christian lore in the form of a pantheon composed of the archangels. That said, the setup for the setting of Scion 2E bothers me a bit because of how hand-wavy it is towards modern day faiths -- particularly the multitude and dominance of the Abrahamic faiths. So, I wanted to do some headcanon retcons to explain how you can have Scions out in front of the setting in areas of the world dominated by Christianity. I want the Bodiless Powers to be deeply integrated into the Scion setting rather than developed on its own and dropped into the setting.

    What I want to do with this pantheon is explain how the Archangels operate alongside the other pantheons, but in such a way that Scions and their pantheons still get top billing. I didnt want to make the Bodiless Powers outright antagonists (thats too easy), but I did want to show that they operate fundamentally differently than other Pantheons. I tried to select a core set of archangels that applied to Catholicism and Orthodoxy... with the acknowledgement that I cant cover ALL the relevant angels for each branch of the faith.

    So... this is my quick workup to see how it looks. I am very open to suggestions and critiques. I am hoping I can use this thread to broaden the writeup and eventually get it up on STV.


    Bodiless Powers

    The Bodiless Powers are gods but aggressively refuse to accept the nomenclature. Instead, they demand that their followers refer to them as ‘archangels.’ The archangels consistently say that they serve a higher power, one whose power is so transcendent that human physiology is incapable of pronouncing the name. Instead, human followers have given the Archangels’ lord the name “YHWH.”

    YHWH has never been seen active in the way other gods have been. Likewise, despite many attempts, no scion has ever been visited by YHWH. Instead, the Archangels and Angels say they speak (and act) on His behalf.

    The Bodiless Powers are the most powerful pantheon currently active. The number of the Heavenly Host, which includes the archangels and lesser angels, numbers close to one hundred. They have followers across the globe. Some regions and faiths place special emphasis on different angels, though the archangels are generally respected and followed across the world.

    The angels’ refusal to accept direct worship sets them apart from the other pantheons. Instead of direct worship, they ask their followers to place their faith in YHWH which metaphysically then redirects and redistributes the faith towards the Host. In this way, the Bodiless Powers have created a system that reduces the types of squabbling and rivalries that are common in other pantheons. The communitarian aspect of how faith and worship work, ensures the Host are focused on things other than petty arguments or competition within the faith for the same followers.

    As a pantheon, the Bodiless Powers were generally hostile to the other pantheons. For much of its history, the Host was actively aggressive against the other gods, seeking to either forcibly convert the followers of other pantheons or destroy those who refused to convert to worship of YHWH or the angels themselves. Since the ascension of the Bodiless Powers to a place of security and prominence, they have backed off from wide scale hostilities and aggression.

    There are still elements within the Host who seek confrontation with the other pantheons. These elements are led by the Archangel Uriel, who coordinates warlike angles from around the world. Though the others rarely participate in any of Uriel’s “marches,” Uriel’s actions have never been denounced by the other Archangels (perhaps because the Host as a whole benefit from new followers).


    Archangels:

    Gabriel – the messenger
    Michael – destroyer, warrior
    Raphael - healer
    Ramiel (jeremeel) – protector
    Uriel – repentance, redemption – lambs blood in egypt
    Azrrael – death


    Titan-equivalents:

    Abaddon
    Lucifer

  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post

    Could you spell it and give us list of pairs - and why they work for all Great Three Abrahamic?
    I’ll be posting a first section soon. Unfortunately it won’t be super useful for PCs for Hero-Demigod level play until Saints and Monsters comes out and we get higher power Saint rules. I will eventually have Nephilim rules in there too for forbidden-Scion play.

    Leave a comment:


  • Astromancer
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    I'd be more inclined to go for one Pantheon that's built on what the three main Abrahamic religions agree on, with sub-Pantheons (e.g., the Loa vs. the Orisha) that specialize in individual Abrahamic religions.
    Perhaps we could do something on the Canaanite and Arabian pantheons and the Abrahamic factions that took them over. Perhaps even deal with those that still resent the forced merger.

    Leave a comment:


  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
    Thankfully in my case I think I’ve found a workable Virtue pair that are interpreted differently by the different Abrahamic religions but still overlap.
    Could you spell it and give us list of pairs - and why they work for all Great Three Abrahamic?

    Leave a comment:


  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
    The Nexus has a rule against doing Christian-adjacent properties. Like it says 'No monotheistic pantheons' but they mean 'No Abrahamic Pantheons'

    Edit: Also on the whole 'Different sets of Virtues' that's possible, but it'd probably be better to like... Instead of one BIG Pantheon that encompasses everything vaguely Abrahamic, see if you could at least make them related but slightly separate Pantheons? I know that at one time someone made an Abrahamic writeup that was a great deal more Jewish than Christian. (Warning: Incomplete and probably won't get updated but it has a lot of what you need)

    So you can totally justify a Hebrew Angelic Host Pantheon, something with Islam (I don't know enough about Islam to even guess as the cosmology differences) and some things for Christianity
    this is something I keep wrestling with, and the point I get stuck on is how many other pantheons actually reflect significant religious diversity, United by shared mythic narratives. I mean just look at the Deva!

    Thankfully in my case I think I’ve found a workable Virtue pair that are interpreted differently by the different Abrahamic religions but still overlap.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    I'd be more inclined to go for one Pantheon that's built on what the three main Abrahamic religions agree on, with sub-Pantheons (e.g., the Loa vs. the Orisha) that specialize in individual Abrahamic religions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Magicjohnny
    replied
    Yeah it would probably be better to have at least three separate pantheons(at the very least) that share a Primordial but in different Mantles

    Leave a comment:


  • Kyman201
    replied
    Originally posted by wyrdhamster View Post
    Returning to the idea - We should totally do this as Storypath Nexus product. Many Scion fans are asking about this kind of thing and would it be much easier to have this 'forged' as fan product and not separated notes on forum. Even as Pay What You Want thing.
    The Nexus has a rule against doing Christian-adjacent properties. Like it says 'No monotheistic pantheons' but they mean 'No Abrahamic Pantheons'

    Edit: Also on the whole 'Different sets of Virtues' that's possible, but it'd probably be better to like... Instead of one BIG Pantheon that encompasses everything vaguely Abrahamic, see if you could at least make them related but slightly separate Pantheons? I know that at one time someone made an Abrahamic writeup that was a great deal more Jewish than Christian. (Warning: Incomplete and probably won't get updated but it has a lot of what you need)

    So you can totally justify a Hebrew Angelic Host Pantheon, something with Islam (I don't know enough about Islam to even guess as the cosmology differences) and some things for Christianity
    Last edited by Kyman201; 11-27-2020, 01:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • wyrdhamster
    replied
    Returning to the idea - We should totally do this as Storypath Nexus product. Many Scion fans are asking about this kind of thing and would it be much easier to have this 'forged' as fan product and not separated notes on forum. Even as Pay What You Want thing.

    Other idea - As Abrahamic religions ARE different - Maybe Bodiless Powers Pantheon have 3 different Virtues pairs for their Saints, etc.? Like 'Mercy vs Righteousness' for Christians, 'Trust vs Dedication' for Jews ("Thrust the higher power” x “do your part” from MatheusLuz idea ) and Islam for I do not know enough to even uproach interpreting it...

    Leave a comment:


  • Coyoteintx
    replied
    Originally posted by Mike McCall View Post
    I like Mercy and Righteousness. I think it captures the themes you're talking about quite well, and I think they make sense as the Virtues for an angelic pantheon.

    I think I am settling on "charity vs righteousness."

    Leave a comment:


  • Mike McCall
    replied
    I like Mercy and Righteousness. I think it captures the themes you're talking about quite well, and I think they make sense as the Virtues for an angelic pantheon.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Well, yeah. That's because “Virtues exist because Gods in myth are creatures of passion and emotion, and this often leads them astray. They also exist because many pantheons and mythologies feature dual themes playing through them”: Scion: Hero, p.190. The God of Christianity isn't a creature of passion and emotion; so technically, attempting to force the Christian Virtues into a model designed for passionate and emotional gods is going to have some difficulties.

    That said, the central premise behind Christianity is that God cannot abide sin, and that no one can measure up to His standards (this is where Righteousness comes in) and all deserve death; but that God so loves the World that He created a loophole that allow those who accept it to receive grace and not receive the punishment they ultimately deserve (this is where Charity comes in). So in a sense, this can be considered a duality of sorts, where you need to strike a balance between living up to impossible standards on the one hand, and exercising forgiveness on the other.

    I guess another way to phrase it might be Justice and Mercy; though that's not really quite right either.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    So my way to think is not too far away from your description. But I would use the old saying (not sure if it’s the way you speak it in English) God writes correctly in torn lines. The first side is the love of god, you thrust he will put you in the right place and you have the right tool to solve it, the second side is the love for the people, you will martyr yourself to bring the love of god to your fellows. It’s the opposition, gods will x pure kindness.

    the problem with your approach is that they are not really opposed, like the other virtues, you can do the right thing and do charity (in most cases they are the same thing).
    Last edited by Mateus Luz; 01-27-2020, 09:47 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    The essence of Righteousness is that “we do as God wills” and “we do the right thing” are synonymous. This is countered with “the Devil will try to deceive you; so don't blindly obey.” Put another way, if there seems to be a conflict between what God is telling you to do and doing the right thing, then either it isn't God who's telling you to do it, or your sense of right and wrong needs work.

    But the reason why I think Righteousness and Charity might work well is that when Jesus was asked what the greatest commandment was, He answered (paraphrasing) “Love the Lord your God with all your heart; and the second commandment is Love your neighbor as yourself. These are the foundations on which all other commandments are based.” Righteousness would be the first one; Charity would be the second.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    I would put the “Thrust the higher power” x “do your part” as the virtues. I may be too “outsider” but there is this “we work for god and god is the one that commands us” and at same time there is the do the right thing.

    Leave a comment:

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