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Is Arete worth it?

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  • Is Arete worth it?

    Specifically using 1E -
    So I'm new to Scion, coming from W:tF, C:tL, Exalted 1E, and Aberrant and Adventure! long ago. Working to make some characters for my players, we're all exploring the rules in Hero together, and the consensus around the table is that Arete 1 is not really such a great birthright. You can't trade in the two for a potential reroll, it's not successes like Epic Attributes, it's just one extra die to one skill roll.
    Is this a less-useful or relevant ability than the other pantheon-specific boons? How do/did you make it worth the taking for your players?

  • #2
    In terms of efficacy? Arete is probably the best PSP (not exactly a crowded field). At lower levels it's not really great, but once you get up there you're going to appreciate the dice, and the rerolls.

    In terms of being fun? Arete is the single most boring Purview. It adds dice and lets you reroll.

    Honestly the best reason to take Arete 1 is because Arete 2 requires it.

    Also, warnings to your players: Any Birthright that isn't a Relic? Sucks. Half any given Purviews? Suck. If your players want something worth their XP, invest in Epic Attributes and the handful of Boons that don't suck.

    Also also tell your players to not take Jotunblut, because it's absolutely fucking terrible on every level. It sucks for being inaccurate to anything in Nordic Myth, it sucks because it's actually kind of offensive (giving your blood to other people and animals is kind of gross even without the Supernatural Loyalty) and its mechanics are absolutely terrible (You buff the strength and stamina of your FOLLOWERS, when your Followers are mechanically useless and even if you give them 1-3 dots of Epic Strength they're gonna keep sucking because you're better off using your XP to improve yourself)

    But if you want my absolute advice? Take all your Scion 1e books and toss them, and pick up Scion 2e. It's more mechanically sound and the Theoi PSP is actually worth half a shit. :P
    Last edited by Kyman201; 02-23-2020, 11:46 PM.


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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    • #3
      1E was on sale on drivethrurpg, and I can't really afford to invest in 2nd ed before potentially running this with my students.

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      • #4
        Legit concern, I suppose. Keep it at Hero level and the mechanics probably won't collapse and shatter around you. Possibly.

        Some other advice: Guns, RAW, are kinda useless. They add a lump sum to their damage rolls rather than an Attribute, and as such don't gain any Epic Attribute successes. Consider a house rule that lets you add Perception to a gun's damage roll instead of the +4 from the tag.

        Geasa in the Companion will break your game in half. I recommend banning it.

        Similarly, Untouchable Opponent's effect of doubling your E. Dex successes to your DVs is broken as all get-out. Consider banning that, or at the very least change its effect to "Add your POINTS of Epic Dex to your DVs" rather than doubling the bonus.

        Dex is the Godstat, Epic Dex especially so. As your game progresses you'll probably run into the type of people who max their Epic Dex dominating every fight. This isn't quite as obvious at Hero level but trust me, it gets blatant at Demigod and by God the entire system shatters.

        The 1e Birthrights that aren't Relics, as mentioned, are fairly useless. Followers get pulped by anything with a halfway decent amount of Epic Attributes, Creatures can theoretically put up an okay fight but most of the Creatures in the book are laughably underpowered (except the Fenrir Wolves, those things can TPK you if you don't invest in Epic Dex of your own), and Guides are basically paying XP for what amounts to a Plot-Convenient NPC, which is just lame game design.

        Also feel free to go crazy with the lore. 1e basically has no setting, and what setting it does seems like it was trying to copy off of WoD's notes. Thus why the Gods pretend they don't exist in 1e, because... We have WoD, and that means there needs to be a Masquerade, right? And each God's biography is... NOT well-researched. Doing some research on your own will probably lead to much more interesting Gods.


        Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Kylike View Post
          1E was on sale on drivethrurpg, and I can't really afford to invest in 2nd ed before potentially running this with my students.
          You are running Scion for your students? Oh, this is incredibly interesting! As part of a tabletop game club, or something else?


          Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
          The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire, The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples, The Sgā’na Qeda’s: the Pantheon of the Haida First Nation, The Abosom: The Pantheon of the Ashanti, Lebor Óe In Dea: an Expansion for the Túatha Dé Danann, The Zemi: The Pantheon of the Taíno People(s).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
            Legit concern, I suppose. Keep it at Hero level and the mechanics probably won't collapse and shatter around you. Possibly.

            Some other advice: Guns, RAW, are kinda useless. They add a lump sum to their damage rolls rather than an Attribute, and as such don't gain any Epic Attribute successes. Consider a house rule that lets you add Perception to a gun's damage roll instead of the +4 from the tag.

            Geasa in the Companion will break your game in half. I recommend banning it.

            Similarly, Untouchable Opponent's effect of doubling your E. Dex successes to your DVs is broken as all get-out. Consider banning that, or at the very least change its effect to "Add your POINTS of Epic Dex to your DVs" rather than doubling the bonus.

            Dex is the Godstat, Epic Dex especially so. As your game progresses you'll probably run into the type of people who max their Epic Dex dominating every fight. This isn't quite as obvious at Hero level but trust me, it gets blatant at Demigod and by God the entire system shatters.

            The 1e Birthrights that aren't Relics, as mentioned, are fairly useless. Followers get pulped by anything with a halfway decent amount of Epic Attributes, Creatures can theoretically put up an okay fight but most of the Creatures in the book are laughably underpowered (except the Fenrir Wolves, those things can TPK you if you don't invest in Epic Dex of your own), and Guides are basically paying XP for what amounts to a Plot-Convenient NPC, which is just lame game design.

            Also feel free to go crazy with the lore. 1e basically has no setting, and what setting it does seems like it was trying to copy off of WoD's notes. Thus why the Gods pretend they don't exist in 1e, because... We have WoD, and that means there needs to be a Masquerade, right? And each God's biography is... NOT well-researched. Doing some research on your own will probably lead to much more interesting Gods.
            Thank you so much for some help with trying to balance what I have. I'll play around with Epic DeX especially to make it so you dont have to take it

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Watcher View Post

              You are running Scion for your students? Oh, this is incredibly interesting! As part of a tabletop game club, or something else?
              I just got a job at a therapeutic boarding school for boys age 14-18. My friend teaches there, and while I was out of work a whole ago, I went in on Fridays to run D&D as an activity. They loved it, and it was much needed social practice for them.

              I got hired for a temporary gig there, and while my M-Th mornings are taken up with English classes, aiding, and coteaching, I have afternoons and Fridays to teach whatever electives I can justify as helpful either academically or socially.

              I need to talk to the director- a lot of the kids are very interested in mythology, so if she'll let me, I might do a mythology/Scion elective. Otherwise, it'll be a Friday activity.

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              • #8
                That's lovely I hope the kids have fun... and while I barely remember any of 1es Mechanics very well anymore, feel free to ask around here or the Scion Discord if you have any myth questions, or if you want suggested readings for a Mythology class It's always lovely to hear about a new generation of myth lovers

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah, I second that. The material in 1e is a bit hit and miss in terms of accuracy and being respectful, but if you want suggestions for myths to look at for kids in that age group for the Túatha Dé Danann, let me know and I can get a collection to you!


                  Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
                  The Šiuneš, the Pantheon of the Hittite Empire, The Enduri: the Pantheon of the Manchu Peoples, The Sgā’na Qeda’s: the Pantheon of the Haida First Nation, The Abosom: The Pantheon of the Ashanti, Lebor Óe In Dea: an Expansion for the Túatha Dé Danann, The Zemi: The Pantheon of the Taíno People(s).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Those two? Very smart and are better people than I for Myth questions


                    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                      Yeah, I second that. The material in 1e is a bit hit and miss in terms of accuracy and being respectful, but if you want suggestions for myths to look at for kids in that age group for the Túatha Dé Danann, let me know and I can get a collection to you!

                      Yes, PLEASE! Per Kyman201's recommendation, I'm going to probably ban Geasa and see what else can take its place for the PSP, but I think a couple of my students may lean that way.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Samudra View Post
                        That's lovely I hope the kids have fun... and while I barely remember any of 1es Mechanics very well anymore, feel free to ask around here or the Scion Discord if you have any myth questions, or if you want suggested readings for a Mythology class It's always lovely to hear about a new generation of myth lovers

                        I'd love any recommendations. I read a lot of mythology when I was young, but mostly Mediterranean - Roman, Greek, Near Eastern, and Egyptian

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