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  • Help with combat

    Hi,

    Could someone please explain me the combat mechanics? A Step by step battle with 2 enemies (simple Mook but attack first) & 1 scion would be great.
    I'm mostly interested in the defense systeme for PC.

    Thanks for your help.


    English is not my native language, please forgive my mistakes

  • #2
    If you're most interested in how PC defense works, here's what I would say:

    Assume PC has a Resolve of 3 and 2 points of Soft Armor.

    Antagonist attacks PC. PC rolls the highest of their resilience attributes (Stamina, Resolve, or Composure.) We'll use the 3 dice for Resolve, and the PC rolls 1 successes. The PC decides to spend that success on a Dodge stunt. So, the PC's Defense is now 2 (1 for starting Defense + 1 for Dodge stunt.) The Antagonist rolls and has to roll at least 2 successes to hit the PC's Defense. Say the Antagonist rolls 4 successes. That means the Antagonist has 2 threshold successes to spend (4 successes - 2 for Defense.) Since the PC has Soft Armor of 2, it make the Inflict Injury stunt cost 2 successes. The Antagonist has enough threshold successes to do that and chooses to use the Inflict Injury stunt. The PC takes an Injury Condition.

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    • #3
      The Step by step is:

      1 - Attacker declare that want to attack a target
      2 - Target does a Defense Roll if it's the first time since last time had Focus, otherwise use last roll.
      -- a - Defense roll is the more relevant Resilience attribute (Resolve, Stamina or Composure).
      -- b - The successes in the roll are used to defensive stunts (usually Dodge, that adds 1 to the defense, but there are other options, like moving away or diving for cover).
      -- c - Determine the target Defense (1 + Dodge stunts).
      3 - Attacker roll attack (skill + attribute).
      -- a - If at least 1 success (value 8+ for Heroes and Mortals) add Enhancements as extra successes.
      -- b - Subtract target Defense from the attacker successes. If 0+ the attack hit the target, otherwise miss. HIT DOES NOT MEAN HURT!
      -- c - Spend the remaining successes on stunts.
      ---- i - Cause Damage stunt costs is equal to the target Soft Armor value. If soft arbor is 0, the hit can cause damage with no cost, otherwise it will cost.
      ---- ii - Cause Damage stunt can be bought once more for every scale the attacker have above the target.
      ---- iii - If have extra successes (including if you don't have enough successes to cause damage, or if don't want to cause damage), the attacher can spend on other stunts, including Critical stunt.
      4 - Target receive damage if any damage was done.
      -- a - If the Cause Damage stunt was bought, the target receives one Injury
      ---- i - Injuries causes Injury Complication, according to the box that was marked, but injuries don't affects all the rolls, just the ones related to it (lets say, a broken arm will not affect the movement, and a bruised leg will not affect shooting).
      -- b - If the Critical stunt was bought, the target receives a second Injury
      -- c - If the attacker have Scale above the target and bought Cause Damage stunt multiple times, the target receives multiple injuries.


      The proper answer to “Hello There” is, obviously, “General Kenobi”.
      Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
      https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product.../Fists-of-Flux

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
        The Step by step is:

        1 - Attacker declare that want to attack a target
        2 - Target does a Defense Roll if it's the first time since last time had Focus, otherwise use last roll.
        -- a - Defense roll is the more relevant Resilience attribute (Resolve, Stamina or Composure).
        -- b - The successes in the roll are used to defensive stunts (usually Dodge, that adds 1 to the defense, but there are other options, like moving away or diving for cover).
        -- c - Determine the target Defense (1 + Dodge stunts).
        3 - Attacker roll attack (skill + attribute).
        -- a - If at least 1 success (value 8+ for Heroes and Mortals) add Enhancements as extra successes.
        -- b - Subtract target Defense from the attacker successes. If 0+ the attack hit the target, otherwise miss. HIT DOES NOT MEAN HURT!
        -- c - Spend the remaining successes on stunts.
        ---- i - Cause Damage stunt costs is equal to the target Soft Armor value. If soft arbor is 0, the hit can cause damage with no cost, otherwise it will cost.
        ---- ii - Cause Damage stunt can be bought once more for every scale the attacker have above the target.
        ---- iii - If have extra successes (including if you don't have enough successes to cause damage, or if don't want to cause damage), the attacher can spend on other stunts, including Critical stunt.
        4 - Target receive damage if any damage was done.
        -- a - If the Cause Damage stunt was bought, the target receives one Injury
        ---- i - Injuries causes Injury Complication, according to the box that was marked, but injuries don't affects all the rolls, just the ones related to it (lets say, a broken arm will not affect the movement, and a bruised leg will not affect shooting).
        -- b - If the Critical stunt was bought, the target receives a second Injury
        -- c - If the attacker have Scale above the target and bought Cause Damage stunt multiple times, the target receives multiple injuries.
        Very nice step-by-step for combat!



        Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
        Current Focus
        Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
        Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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        • #5
          And if it comes up... With PC defense, their Defense difficulty is set after that first defense roll in the round. So if you get attacked by one Antagonist, and the Defend roll gives you a Defense of 3 against that attack, then get attacked again? You do not roll Defense for that second attack. The Antagonist rolls vs your previously established Defense of 3.


          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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          • #6
            Mateus' steps are great. The only minor tweak I would make is that in Scion, you use the best of your resilience attributes. It's one of the small differences vs. TC.

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            • #7
              It seems to me, after reading the combat chapter, that Scion is a lot more rigid on what Attributes are used for combat than Trinity is. For example writing that you roll Close Combat + Might for close combat and spelling out what Attributes are used for different ranges. Is this a correct observation?

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              • #8
                That's the way I read it.

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                • #9
                  Id lean toward keeping it as written but there isnt much that breaks if you allow an attack woth dex instead of might.
                  What i would do is it influence the injury condition it gives and maybe things like not allowed to use the sunder stunt or affect armor.

                  The only caveat i would have would be against stamina.
                  While i could find ways to explain attacking with stamina, the attribute would potentially run triple duty as attack, defense and health. And this is too close to One Stat does it All to my taste.


                  Completed campaign: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 3 year old daughter and a 1 year old son.

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                  • #10
                    I generally consider the listed attack pool attributes as firm guidelines rather than ironclad rules. My personal rule for changing the pool is "Have the player justify it"

                    Which can vary for some opponents. Like, sure, in many cases someome can explain away using dex for melee attacks, but with an animate rock monster it may be tougher to justify how hitting it more precisely makes a difference.

                    (When I say "Justify it" my threshold for justification isn't that high. Mostly if they try and their explanation makes decent sense)


                    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                    • #11
                      So, I'm searching and searching... Where in the book does it say that scale allows you to inflict damage more than once??

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nika777 View Post
                        So, I'm searching and searching... Where in the book does it say that scale allows you to inflict damage more than once??

                        Origin, page 122, under Damage and Scale.

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                        • #13
                          Ah, thank you!!!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Florin View Post
                            Mateus' steps are great. The only minor tweak I would make is that in Scion, you use the best of your resilience attributes. It's one of the small differences vs. TC.
                            I think he has it on line 2a



                            Roleplaying not Rollplaying or Ruleplaying
                            Current Focus
                            Storypath & Storypath to Run CoD, VtR, WtF, MtA
                            Dungeons & Dragons 5th Edition

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Graylion View Post

                              I think he has it on line 2a
                              yes and no... I meant most relevant as highest, yes. Scion using the highest is a good simplification, you just write it in the sheet and done, but I really prefer the “take your pick” option.

                              I like the idea of using different rolls for defense once in awhile, same thing for attack. Actually, in lots of tests as a SG I just say “it’s mental” or ”it’s resilience”, and the person narrate it for attribute he is using. At leas that’s the idea, usually we just go straight for the standard.


                              The proper answer to “Hello There” is, obviously, “General Kenobi”.
                              Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                              https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product.../Fists-of-Flux

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