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Can relics increase scale?

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  • Can relics increase scale?

    Question is focused mostly around vehicles. Could a relic car give a +1 to a cars normal speed scale to make it supernaturally fast? I know you could use enhancement to increase its handling.

  • #2
    Hm, i would allow a car, relic or not, to give scalr on movement and damage (if you are ramming someone).
    But i would be careful to have it cap out at like scale 1 or 2 max and not have it stack woth other scale increase (like with invoking legendary title).
    But my players havent used scale much in the game so it could be im just not completely used to the extent of what it can do.

    Edit: ack, i didnt see you meant in relation to another non relic car.
    No i would not give the car a scale increase. Id allow it to give maybe epic dex which has a boon that gives scale on speed i think. And have it happen through the relic car. But otherwise id be careful on relics giving bonus scale.


    Completed campaign: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 2year old daughter anf a 1 year old son.

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    • #3
      In this case I have the idea of super fast car or bike and I know someone will go all ghost rider on me and want to have a bike or car that can fly/drive and be faster then a normal version of itself.

      I am thinking scale up by 1 yes, after that no. Until I find out more in the companion with more detailed relic rules or in demigod with possibly demigod level relics. Providing they are young relic scope in demigod.
      I hope they do as the relics in 1e for a god or mortal where the same.

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      • #4
        And if you did decide to allow a relic to increase scale, I would suggest that it come with some highly thematic pay-back. Not to punish your players (that's never cool) but more to roleplay out the notion that what they've done is monumental and not to be done lightly. Especially at the Hero level, where they're supposed to be coming into their power not effortlessly changing the world quite yet. It puts them in that way cool legendary place where they see what's coming, the see what they have to do, they really wish they didn't have to do it because they can see what the prices are going to be, but they make the hard choice and they do what has to be done.

        In the matter of the vehicle, for example, perhaps the speed causes great environmental side effects for its vast speed, whether that be wind gusts pulling objects (maybe even people) behind them or their speed comes at the cost of others and the speed of everything around them is kind of drawn out and dropped a scale level to 'pay' for their own increase. Think on the Scions in the vehicle needing to outrun an oncoming tidal wave. They can do it in their vehicle, but it's going to slow everyone else around them down. They can do it, maybe even get to the water giant who's making it all happen, but everyone else around them is going to slow and be caught up in it. The dawning horror, as they realise the choice between taking their chances on their own, or guaranteeing success but at what cost?

        And, obviously, there are times when it's just cool and they need to get from one side of the state to another and they are essentially doing a Cannonball Run down the highway at a zillion miles an hour, and that makes for an epic, cool plot device that gets them from A to B even if other cars around them are left slowed and stalled behind them.

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        • #5
          I wouldn't use Scale because Relics generally have Enhancement bonuses. However, +2 Enhancement is ALMOST the mechanical equivalent of +1 Scale. So, I would give the car +2 Enhancement to all speed related tasks and call it good.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Florin View Post
            I wouldn't use Scale because Relics generally have Enhancement bonuses. However, +2 Enhancement is ALMOST the mechanical equivalent of +1 Scale. So, I would give the car +2 Enhancement to all speed related tasks and call it good.
            Something about that, although mechanically is true, does not sit right with me.

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            • #7
              I'd be careful about applying Scale willy-nilly. Scale can be scary.

              Like, okay, let's assume you have your Relic Car, and that the car already applies Scale 2 when going fast because it's a car.

              Now let's assume that you have the customer Knack that lets you add +1 Scale to Zoom.

              And let's also assume you, a Hero at Legend 1, pop a Feat of Scale. That's another point of Scale.

              Suddenly your car is going at Scale 4 Speed, so +8 Automatic Successes. And the Scale Chart in Origin puts Scale 4 Speed as the general ballpark of "Commercial Airliner". Not to mention any Scale 0-1 Speed races are resolved automatically due to the difference in Scale rendering it Trivial.

              Now... Usually I'd be a bit dubious about Relics that add Scale, but in this particular case... Well +1 Speed Scale (CAPPED at +1 from the Relic itself) probably won't shatter too much. That's comparable to the innate power of Epic Strength IMO. I'd also definitely add in a Flaw like "This car loses its supernatural powers if you lose a race and regains them once you fulfill a Virtue with it" or something.

              Also I'd definitely hard-no any Relic weapons that add Scale.


              Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                I'd be careful about applying Scale willy-nilly. Scale can be scary.

                Like, okay, let's assume you have your Relic Car, and that the car already applies Scale 2 when going fast because it's a car.

                Now let's assume that you have the customer Knack that lets you add +1 Scale to Zoom.

                And let's also assume you, a Hero at Legend 1, pop a Feat of Scale. That's another point of Scale.

                Suddenly your car is going at Scale 4 Speed, so +8 Automatic Successes. And the Scale Chart in Origin puts Scale 4 Speed as the general ballpark of "Commercial Airliner". Not to mention any Scale 0-1 Speed races are resolved automatically due to the difference in Scale rendering it Trivial.

                Now... Usually I'd be a bit dubious about Relics that add Scale, but in this particular case... Well +1 Speed Scale (CAPPED at +1 from the Relic itself) probably won't shatter too much. That's comparable to the innate power of Epic Strength IMO. I'd also definitely add in a Flaw like "This car loses its supernatural powers if you lose a race and regains them once you fulfill a Virtue with it" or something.

                Also I'd definitely hard-no any Relic weapons that add Scale.
                At the Hero level I don’t think I’d ever let a weapon or armor add scale unless it’s the ultimate bad guy who stole Aries sword or something do that nature and it would never be past a +1.

                I think part of my issue is I’ve read the Aberrant backers PDF more times then anything els for storypath and so scaling up is no where near rare.

                However I like the idea of the car giving the knack to increase scale at maybe a cost so it just can not happen all the time. Perhaps even requiring a legend expenditure or imbue minimum if not the knack/momentum.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Fuzzykuma View Post

                  At the Hero level I don’t think I’d ever let a weapon or armor add scale unless it’s the ultimate bad guy who stole Aries sword or something do that nature and it would never be past a +1.

                  I think part of my issue is I’ve read the Aberrant backers PDF more times then anything els for storypath and so scaling up is no where near rare.

                  However I like the idea of the car giving the knack to increase scale at maybe a cost so it just can not happen all the time. Perhaps even requiring a legend expenditure or imbue minimum if not the knack/momentum.
                  Hm, how about a Knack that lets you Imbue in order to gain a Feat of Scale boost for the Scene instead of SPENDING for a Feat of Scale?


                  Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post

                    Hm, how about a Knack that lets you Imbue in order to gain a Feat of Scale boost for the Scene instead of SPENDING for a Feat of Scale?

                    That's definitely a thing! We can look to Tideshaper as an example of it and to figure out how many dots it would cost. 3 dots to let you imbue instead of spend legend to perform an upheaval, so something similar I'd say.

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                    • #11
                      I would say a relic could add scale in certain very narrow conditions, much like a Legendary Title granted to the hero by the relic. It should be a narrow use, and cost the same as a purview access.
                      For example, a car could grant the “Fast and Furious” title, that would allow add scale when racing and maybe last forever (maybe worth 30 bad movies). A sword could have the title Giant Bane, and gain scale when fighting Giants.

                      For a car granting scale as a “natural effect of its use” I would allow it to apply, but not staking with other gains of scale. Yet, the use is very restrict, the car is big and fast, so it grant scale when resisting damage and running (but not for manouvers).


                      The proper answer to “Hello There” is, obviously, “General Kenobi”.
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                      • #12
                        Plus Relics, like other birthrights are suppose to get more powerful as you go up in tier. Origin-Hero work on roughly the same scale, Demigod-Immortal and God-Divine are supposed to bring changes to how they function. Something to remember


                        Thoughts ripple out, birthing others

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