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A lost pantheon?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Also, I took the original intent not as “let's make up a new Pantheon and attach it to these lost people just because”, but rather “let's have a Pantheon that was worshipped by a loving culture until very recently — a Pantheon that had active supporters in the World that were contemporaries of the likes of the Aesir and the Kami until they got wiped out. Let's explore how this Pantheon reacts to the total loss of its mortal worshippers.”

    That's the part of this idea that I like: it's kind of a flip side of the Nemontedavos, where the people survived (somewhat) but their gods were wiped out (assuming that they were, in 2e).
    I feel you understood me. Thank You Dataweaver.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
      How do we know that Atlantis wasn't a real people that similarly got lost? For all we know, making stuff up about them is just as disrespectful as making stuff up about the culture that the original poster was referring to..
      I mean we can be pretty sure that Atlantis didn't exist because when Plato proposed Atlantis he went "Let's come up with a fake Utopia, let's call it Atlantis". Like that's the big thing that it seems got lost in a lot of Atlantis tellings. Atlantis was never really intended to be a literal place that literally existed, even when it was first proposed. It'd be like if I went "Okay I'm going to make up a flying city, let's call it Zyphyeria, a very fictional city that is very deliberately not real"

      And then thousands of years later a bunch of people went "Zypheria existed, this mountain is the city where it crashed"

      Like, no. No, Zypheria never existed. Any resemblance to any real-world culture was due to me being uncreative with designing Zypherian culture. Trying to claim that Zypheria ever existed or that I may be accidentally getting something wrong about a culture I know for certain does not exist is impossible. I'm not getting anything wrong about a culture that I, again, made up and does not exist.

      No, I don't actually believe that Atlantis was real. I'm just making a point. just as it is possible to be insufficiently concerned about being disrespectful, it is also possible to be overly concerned about it
      Counterpoint: Being concerned with being respectful shows that you're trying and you give a shit. Being disrespectful is laughing in the faces of the people, alive or dead, who actually believed these things. If I had to pick one I'd rather be too polite. And 'It's just a game' is no excuse for being lazy and getting shit wrong.

      But on the original topic: A Pantheon whose people are wiped out can reforge their Legend in front of new Worshippers. If a Pantheon is slain while people who know of them exist, then people can claim the Mantles by emulating their Deeds.

      If a God is slain, and if all those who know this God are gone... If nobody can speak of this God's Deeds, and nobody can say who they are... If nobody can tell you who say, Thor is, and what Thor did, and what makes Thor Thor... Did that God ever exist?

      So in the hypothetical scenario of "Gods existed, their people are dead", it's possible for them to find new worshippers. Find them elsewhere. Worship doesn't actually give the Gods any power in Scion. They could demonstrate their power to other people and go "I AM NYTRAX, LORD OF DREAMS".


      Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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      • #33
        Might I suggest using Watcher and Sacerdos's write-up of the Zemis for the "gods alive, worshippers dead," concept? That's more or less how they're depicted in the (very excellent and under-appreciated) write-up. They're an orphaned pantheon, and I would probably run them as being very interested in acquiring new worshippers, albeit worshippers who were not descended from the people involved in the genocide of the Taino. They're also very, very, interested in avenging their people as well.

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        • #34
          Also, looking into Mt. Tambora's location, I'd be very surprised if it weren't within the territory of the Hyangs, in regards to what the local pantheon would be. I'm pretty sure they're not the only pantheon in Indonesia, but it's right off the coast of their home base of Bali.

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          • #35
            The Hyangs might have taken in the shellshocked pantheon, or tried to finish them off. Given how little we know about the locals, we don't even have a description of how folks said they looked, you can play that how you like.

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            • #36
              Looking around the nets archeologists seem to say the lost culture of Sumbawa had a papuan affinity. Well that's far more than they knew before.

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              • #37
                Personally, I would also be reluctant to portray a pantheon or culture that was completely lost to us. If we have nothing to work with, we can't work with it, right?

                If you want to touch on a lost culture's pantheon, maybe you could explore what exactly that loss and the blank it leaves behind in the cultural landscape means to the rest of the gods. An entire real world culture just disappearing with no records of them is a sad and horrible thing and it should be sad and horrible in the World, as well. If a pantheon's cult is so completely destroyed that nothing - no names, no images, no one who remembers them - remains in the World, then perhaps they are just cut off from the World? Removed from existence by Fate? I would treat the potential Tamboran pantheon as exactly what the title of this thread calls them: a lost pantheon. They are not absent, dead, or temporarily disabled, they are just gone.

                So instead of asking how other pantheons would treat potential survivors, I think it might be interesting to think about how other pantheons would deal with seeing another group of gods just disappear. Just imagine the Hyang realising one morning in 1815 that their neighbour - a pantheon they have known for aeons - just vanished and they suddenly cannot remember a single thing about them. Were the gods of Tambora best friends, mortal enemies, casual acquaintances? Were they powerful, beautiful, terrible, or all of the above? Somehow the Hyang just can't remember.



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                • #38
                  The only catch is that in Scion, gods don't depend on their mortal followers door their existence. If the culture that was mentioned in the first post worshipped a Pantheon that's distinct from the ones we know, those gods would not have been wiped out along with their followers. Gods not only can survive the destruction of their followers; it's not even particularly hard to do. And if anything, it would be exceptionally odd if they didn't survive the complete and utter destruction of their followers.

                  So “how do they react to another group of gods just disappearing?” isn't what would happen either.


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                  • #39
                    I think there is much fun and potential to be had in this sort of situation. I think history itself is often weirder then our imaginations sometimes and so using an actual point or moment or culture as the core for a campaign makes a lot of sense. Additionally, there can be quite a lot of fun in taking the bits and pieces we do know and filling in the gaps for your own campaign.

                    This whole thing might not be something everyone would use at their gaming table but for those who find it intriguing, and I am one of them, I say thanks for posting it as it gives a gives me a good starting point for campaign development.

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                    • #40
                      Correct me if I'm wrong but the gods maintain human worshippers because it gives them a way to distinguish themselves from Titans allowing them to relate to humans and to define themselves and without those worshippers that distinction disappears
                      So if a pantheons entire mortal culture was obliterated (or just stopped worshipping them as with Aten) but the gods still survived wouldn't they revert back into titans?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by [Insert Original Name
                        ;n1378682]Correct me if I'm wrong but the gods maintain human worshippers because it gives them a way to distinguish themselves from Titans allowing them to relate to humans and to define themselves and without those worshippers that distinction disappears
                        So if a pantheons entire mortal culture was obliterated (or just stopped worshipping them as with Aten) but the gods still survived wouldn't they revert back into titans?
                        I don't think it necessarily reverts them to Titans. I don't feel like that's the right word at least. It would probably would start causing a sort of distancing from humanity and such with those who've most recently lost all their followers potentially looking for other options and ways to do thing with those who've lost their followers further back becoming more of an alien mindset closer to that of the titans.

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                        • #42
                          As far the rules are concerned, the great advantage of having worshipers is a stable source of legend in the forms of Fatebound and Sacrifices. Of course they must lend some of this legend to help the worshipers (otherwise they would just stop sacrificing things on the gods name, but often the gods can just keep the legend and do a minor trick to help them.

                          The idea of becoming Titans is not bad, but I don’t think a former human Scion would become a Titan for lack of worshipers. And there are Titan cults described somewhere (not sure if it’s in 1e or 2e).


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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                            As far the rules are concerned, the great advantage of having worshipers is a stable source of legend in the forms of Fatebound and Sacrifices. Of course they must lend some of this legend to help the worshipers (otherwise they would just stop sacrificing things on the gods name, but often the gods can just keep the legend and do a minor trick to help them.

                            The idea of becoming Titans is not bad, but I don’t think a former human Scion would become a Titan for lack of worshipers. And there are Titan cults described somewhere (not sure if it’s in 1e or 2e).
                            Still it would give the pantheon in question motives to reconnect with the world. They might seek worshipers, or a mantel they could use.

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