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  • Vulcan7200
    started a topic Question about Trivial Targets

    Question about Trivial Targets

    I'm trying to figure out what is considered a "Trivial Target" in the game. My assumption at first was basically any background NPC. People in a crowd that you're not really interacting with.

    However, I've seen some people mention before that things like "Foes" (The lowest level listed in Hero) would be considered Trivial. That doesn't seem right though, as there's quite a few powers that instantly take them out for free without any roll.

    So I'm curious what do people here consider "Trivial" targets.

  • Aristarkos
    replied
    Thanks for the replies!

    From the answers I got I take it that Marvels that give +2 Enhancement should basically ALWAYS need an imbued Legend, because all rolls in my games are narratively important and so using Marvels to enhance them is going to cost.

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  • Magicjohnny
    replied
    For another example say you’re having the players cross through a desert in a montage sort of thing, the players could freely use a Marvel to sprout rivers and trees wherever they go, obviously big impacts, but since it’s narratively unimportant at least for now since it’s a montage, the players could even turn the desert into a beautiful forest, since the desert is right now unimportant. But if instead you’re having a whole scene in the desert, it would require spending Legend since now it’s narratively important

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  • Kyman201
    replied
    Well, the Upheaval Marvel effects the environment.

    Personally I'd have it come down to narrative importance. Using a Marvel to smash a door or a table in some random bar to show off? That's less important.

    But the bank vault door may require Legend. Not because it's tougher, even if it is, but because if you're in a heist and trying to get into a vault, the vault door is a Significant Obstacle
    Last edited by Kyman201; 11-25-2020, 01:22 AM.

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  • Aristarkos
    replied
    I have a question about this too:

    Marvels are basically free of charge against trivial targets. Does the scenery itself count as a trivial target until it has some kind of scale? For example using the Earth Purview I could probably smash open a simple wooden door without paying Legend. But if I try to do the same with a thick steel bank vault I would have to pay Legend, right? Because the vault would conceivably have Scale in hardness / toughness.

    I can kind of see the potential of abusing Marvels in some sense. If my character has access to just about any Purview and I personally possess a modicum of creativity I could see that a character once per scene could give themselves +2e to a variety of rolls (or ignore 3 Complication) entirely for free by leveraging the scenery and environment.

    Is this rules as intended? If so, then cool. I'm just curious.

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  • werlynn
    replied
    I found a difference in the Scion book. One page says greater than 3 the other says 2. Since Trinity just says 3 I assume the instance of 2 is another regrettable need for errata.

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  • Kyman201
    replied
    Originally posted by werlynn View Post
    Isn’t it scale difference greater than 3? You’d need scale n+4, not just Legend 4. Feats of scale are half your legend.
    I know how Feats of Scale work. However I was remembering it as being a scale difference of greater than two, so you were right in that I got the number wrong. I had assumed it was a Scale Difference of three or more (Greater Than Two) so that once you hit Demigod (When your FoS level is 3) then you would automatically splatter Scale 0 characters. I was wrong, you need to be at least Legend 7 for the Scale 4 FoS to apply, which is indeed what a difference of Greater Than Three would be. So yeah, you're right.

    And it also notes that for nameless mooks (and it's unclear whether they mean this as Mook-tier Antagonists or if they just wanted to use a phrase for Background Characters) and for narratively insignificant characters (Trivial characters as I define them in my first post on this thread) then a Scale difference of 1 or more should be sufficient to just automatically splatter them.

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  • werlynn
    replied
    Isn’t it scale difference greater than 3? You’d need scale n+4, not just Legend 4. Feats of scale are half your legend.

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  • Kyman201
    replied
    Oh wait, is there that one rule about how Mooks splatter if you have just one Scale over them? I admit I forgot that one.

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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
    No, it's a Scale difference of MORE than two for them to be considered Trivial. Gotta be a Demigod to instagib a Scale 0 Monster. :P
    Yes, a Monster would be trivial for a Demigod, but a Foe would be Trivial for a Legend 4 band (can get Scale 2 when using Legendary title). That’s what I am talking about, if you can 1 hit the target and can hit multiple targets with a single action, you can treat them as trivial just because the band will take out a bunch of them before them can act and, even if they act later, the foes will not do much.

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  • Kyman201
    replied
    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
    Anyway, if you have a Legend 4 Hero you can probably just consider that anything that can’t get a scale to face is trivial, so the same NPC may be trivial or not, according to the band facing them.
    No, it's a Scale difference of MORE than two for them to be considered Trivial. Gotta be a Demigod to instagib a Scale 0 Monster. :P

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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
    So I recommend ignoring what Mateus said about the low roll thing. Pointless. Trivial targets are so unimportant that they don't even get a dice pool. They don't even have stats. They're not important enough.
    I had forgotten the “it’s free if it’s on trivial” aspect. If you have any stat for that character the character is not trivial.

    In TC there is no Mook or Foe archetypes, they are called Minor Characters, while Minor Threats are roughly as powerful as professionals from Scion. For TC standards, Mook and Foe are trivial, as they are barely 1 hit dummies, but in Scion the rules are a bit different.

    Anyway, if you have a Legend 4 Hero you can probably just consider that anything that can’t get a scale to face is trivial, so the same NPC may be trivial or not, according to the band facing them.

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  • Kyman201
    replied
    Foes and Mooks aren't Trivial. Not unless you have more than 2 Scale over them. If you have Overwhelming Scale on the target, they're trivial, don't bother rolling.

    But more common Trivial foes are ones who don't even get a dice pool. The Trivial targets are the background characters in a given scene. They're the ones who are less important than Antagonists. Even the Mooks where one dice roll can potentially take out four of them aren't Trivial.

    Trivial characters are ones who, on a narrative level, don't matter. They're the extras.

    If your players ask you "What's this character's name?" and you have to go "Uh-" and make one up because you didn't plan for them to even TALK to this random character, they're probably Trivial.

    So I recommend ignoring what Mateus said about the low roll thing. Pointless. Trivial targets are so unimportant that they don't even get a dice pool. They don't even have stats. They're not important enough.

    Edit: As for the people who consider Foes and Mooks to be trivial... yeah, they're wrong. Otherwise you could just use the "Boon/Marvel Costs Nothing on Trivials" rules to slaughter a dozen Mooks for free. While FUN, probably not intended for you to put a dozen Mooks in front of your players and have the first one just snap their fingers and kill them all at once for free.
    Last edited by Kyman201; 06-12-2020, 02:31 PM.

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  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Trivial is any character that don’t impose any real risk to the band in direct confront, in reality it’s up to the Storyguide.

    The general idea is, anything weaker than a Foe is Trivial, anyone that would not react against the characters is Trivial, if a Foe is alone against a Hero, the Foe is trivial.

    If you prefer a more straight rule, anyone that can be take out with a low roll (less than ⅓ of the dice pool) is Trivial.

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