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Scion Titanomachy PDF

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  • Astromancer
    replied
    You should read the old Mage books. They constantly had NPCs whose stats didn't begin to match their described powers and characteristics. They clearly choose to maintain tradition around here ;-)

    Leave a comment:


  • Critian Caceorte
    replied
    Originally posted by Magicjohnny View Post
    So uh, has anyone else noticed that the sample Creature don’t make sense according to the rules set put in Hero? Like for example the Fenrir Pups, have three qualities yet still have the standard 9 dice that three dot Creatures get
    Yeah, I saw that, I just scale them back to the appropriate levels for the game I'm ST'ing. I think they were designed to be antagonists first, and actual usable Birthrights second, which could explain the discrepancy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Magicjohnny
    replied
    So uh, has anyone else noticed that the sample Creature don’t make sense according to the rules set put in Hero? Like for example the Fenrir Pups, have three qualities yet still have the standard 9 dice that three dot Creatures get

    Leave a comment:


  • Coyoteintx
    replied
    Originally posted by FallenEco View Post

    Emphasis mine, because I really wish someone had articulated this earlier. This is what I mean when I say it is mostly political.
    Heck, some of the 'good' Titans are likely labelled as such because they make the gods uncomfortable; Rhea and Elatha are good examples of that sort thing in theory. Titan Callings, Virtues and Dominion Purviews are just the sort of thing prompts that kind of reaction from certain powerful deities, as a VERY general trend.
    Gods still think of themselves as people, as opposed to personifications of reality, wrapped in narrative. Apparently it is rude to remind them.

    I'd like to stress that it only certain pantheons (primarily in the Hero book) that appear to be pushing for the idea of the Titanomachy. Heck the Tuatha de Danann, the pantheon with the most organized Titans, outright acknowledge the divide is political and intermarry. The Aesir aren't far behind. The Theoi are one of the pantheons pushing for it and they have the most 'good' Titans!

    This is the sort of stuff that the book really needs. Some real deep dives into how the various pantheons use the term "Titan" (or the equivilent). I see Titanomachy as a golden opportunity to talk about what it means to be a Titan and how the pantheons use Titan-ostracism to advance their own ends.

    There are some cool insights on this forum, but understanding here doesnt equate to understanding by readers who dont frequent this forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Leliel View Post


    Yeah. People who think that this book is somehow against the grain of 2E need to pick up Mythical Denizens - the freaking Wendigo has some sympathetic traits. Frankly, Scion 2E is openly against the idea that "Titanspawn" means "Evil." It means "enemy/rival of the traditional divine order." And then openly pointing out how little of a commonality that is.

    Frankly, if that were the case, the Orishas' subsection wouldn't be "yeah, Titans aren't really a thing." And in Demigod, the Atua's perspective would not be "...why do you think there's a a difference?"

    Titan, in 2E, is a deliberately messy definition, because it's a title imposed on them by outside forces. And those outside forces have completely different definitions of what a Titan is.

    I think the complaints of being against the grain of 2E was the degree of liberties taken with some of the myths - not just filling in gaps, but rewrites with major ramifications. My biggest beef is presenting Odin and his brothers violating Hospitality, which from Norse ethics is a greater crime than any of the actual horrible crimes attributed to Odin by the Eddas, so it would serve to recontextualize the ENTIRETY of Norse Mythology.

    In cases in myth where an Aesir kills a jotunn host, they are very careful to make sure the host violates hospitality first.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Leliel View Post


    Yeah. People who think that this book is somehow against the grain of 2E need to pick up Mythical Denizens - the freaking Wendigo has some sympathetic traits. Frankly, Scion 2E is openly against the idea that "Titanspawn" means "Evil." It means "enemy/rival of the traditional divine order." And then openly pointing out how little of a commonality that is.

    Frankly, if that were the case, the Orishas' subsection wouldn't be "yeah, Titans aren't really a thing." And in Demigod, the Atua's perspective would not be "...why do you think there's a a difference?"

    Titan, in 2E, is a deliberately messy definition, because it's a title imposed on them by outside forces. And those outside forces have completely different definitions of what a Titan is.
    I like this facet of 2e. Also, the Orisha, Loa and Atua all make no distinction between gods and Titans.

    Leave a comment:


  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Kite474 View Post
    Hmm not sure how to feel about that. At the end of the day Scion is a game that still has combat as a key part of it and to take the biggest antagonist and just not make them antagonist at all feels less like grey morality or being clever and just makes it all annoyingly awkward. If the game had less combat as part of it or was more focused from the beginning of the gods being the "real" bad guys that would be fine but it doesn't do much of either.

    There are plenty of beings who are unambiguously evil to fight. But no one's splat name make them that. Characters have to actually employ moral judgment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kite474
    replied
    Hmm not sure how to feel about that. At the end of the day Scion is a game that still has combat as a key part of it and to take the biggest antagonist and just not make them antagonist at all feels less like grey morality or being clever and just makes it all annoyingly awkward. If the game had less combat as part of it or was more focused from the beginning of the gods being the "real" bad guys that would be fine but it doesn't do much of either.

    Leave a comment:


  • FallenEco
    replied
    Originally posted by Leliel View Post
    -snip-
    Titan, in 2E, is a deliberately messy definition, because it's a title imposed on them by outside forces. And those outside forces have completely different definitions of what a Titan is.
    Emphasis mine, because I really wish someone had articulated this earlier. This is what I mean when I say it is mostly political.
    Heck, some of the 'good' Titans are likely labelled as such because they make the gods uncomfortable; Rhea and Elatha are good examples of that sort thing in theory. Titan Callings, Virtues and Dominion Purviews are just the sort of thing prompts that kind of reaction from certain powerful deities, as a VERY general trend.
    Gods still think of themselves as people, as opposed to personifications of reality, wrapped in narrative. Apparently it is rude to remind them.

    I'd like to stress that it only certain pantheons (primarily in the Hero book) that appear to be pushing for the idea of the Titanomachy. Heck the Tuatha de Danann, the pantheon with the most organized Titans, outright acknowledge the divide is political and intermarry. The Aesir aren't far behind. The Theoi are one of the pantheons pushing for it and they have the most 'good' Titans!

    Leave a comment:


  • Leliel
    replied
    Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post

    No, the book has a huge number of “things to fight”, explanations on how to make them even more powerful (or less powerful, if you want).

    But, if you are looking for reasons to fight those things, it’s not the book. It has monsters you may want to fight, actually most of them are pretty straight forward enemies, but you have also monsters that you may want to side with, even they being “the enemy”, and monster that just don’t care if they are the enemies, they don’t even care about “this war thing going on for eons”.

    Yeah. People who think that this book is somehow against the grain of 2E need to pick up Mythical Denizens - the freaking Wendigo has some sympathetic traits. Frankly, Scion 2E is openly against the idea that "Titanspawn" means "Evil." It means "enemy/rival of the traditional divine order." And then openly pointing out how little of a commonality that is.

    Frankly, if that were the case, the Orishas' subsection wouldn't be "yeah, Titans aren't really a thing." And in Demigod, the Atua's perspective would not be "...why do you think there's a a difference?"

    Titan, in 2E, is a deliberately messy definition, because it's a title imposed on them by outside forces. And those outside forces have completely different definitions of what a Titan is.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mateus Luz
    replied
    Originally posted by Kite474 View Post
    So all in all if your looking for a "book of things to fight" this is ultimately a poor choice correct? As ultimately thats something thats kind of missing from Scion right now.
    No, the book has a huge number of “things to fight”, explanations on how to make them even more powerful (or less powerful, if you want).

    But, if you are looking for reasons to fight those things, it’s not the book. It has monsters you may want to fight, actually most of them are pretty straight forward enemies, but you have also monsters that you may want to side with, even they being “the enemy”, and monster that just don’t care if they are the enemies, they don’t even care about “this war thing going on for eons”.

    Leave a comment:


  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Kite474 View Post
    So all in all if your looking for a "book of things to fight" this is ultimately a poor choice correct? As ultimately thats something thats kind of missing from Scion right now.

    The monsters and Titan Scion foes in the antagonist chapter should be useful toward that end, but it's not the dedicated focus of the book.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kite474
    replied
    So all in all if your looking for a "book of things to fight" this is ultimately a poor choice correct? As ultimately thats something thats kind of missing from Scion right now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post


    It's generally bad game design for future books to require possession of a specific supplement, besides stuff like "see Titanomachy for more on the Titan Callings" as a side note. We can already see in the Demigod draft that conflict with Titans does not appear more narratively central than it was in Hero. Titanomachy is not getting sidelined as extra-canonical, but it's also not the new heart of the game. We already know that God is going to be more concerned with making a Creation Myth to form a new Pantheon, or Incarnation play, than on "battling worldforms laying siege to the Godrealms" ala 1e. That element may be there too! But it won't be the expected default of God play.
    That sounds great 😊

    Leave a comment:


  • glamourweaver
    replied
    Originally posted by Penelope View Post
    glamourweaver how much do you think the Titanomachy will affect future Scion products?

    It's generally bad game design for future books to require possession of a specific supplement, besides stuff like "see Titanomachy for more on the Titan Callings" as a side note. We can already see in the Demigod draft that conflict with Titans does not appear more narratively central than it was in Hero. Titanomachy is not getting sidelined as extra-canonical, but it's also not the new heart of the game. We already know that God is going to be more concerned with making a Creation Myth to form a new Pantheon, or Incarnation play, than on "battling worldforms laying siege to the Godrealms" ala 1e. That element may be there too! But it won't be the expected default of God play.

    Leave a comment:

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