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[2E] What is god's Mantle?

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  • [2E] What is god's Mantle?

    With 2E Demigod KS preview and previous Scion Companion - Mysteries of the World, we have much grater grasp over idea of god's Mantle. Correctly if I'm wrong here:

    Mantle is collection of particular godly beings of Deeds, stories and legends - basically, it's 'myth-persona'. Each major god can have multiple Mantles, representing various cults 'incarnations' in widespread belief. Like Ares and Mars are the same Theoi being, but even Mars have various lesser Mantles - Mars Gradivus, Mars Quirinus, Mars Grabovius, Mars Pater, Mars Silvanus, Mars Ultor, Mars Augustus, to name only few.

    Demigods are previous Heroes that are fighting over creating their own Mantle - or to stole ( or share ) existing Mantle of other God. For example, if new Demigod wanted to become Mars he can fight with existing Mars over all his Mantles - or talk with him to give him one of lesser titles ( Gravidus, Quiinus, Grabovius, Pater, Silvanus, Ultor or Augustus ) - or to create new lesser Mantle for the Demigod.

    I'm getting it all right now?
    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 09-04-2020, 06:29 AM.


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  • #2
    Yes, mostly, at least as far as I got it.

    But, as I see, you Don’t need to ask for permission to create a new mantle, even if it is based on an existent god. For example, let’s say you want to became Mars Polonicus (as you are from Poland), you can build this new mantle and become Mars Polonicus. If Mars want your mantel he can fight to get it, but as you created it it is yours. If you get one of the old ones than he can grab it back when he wants, as you borrowed it was never yours.

    My question is, you are using another god mantle, and it’s your only mantel, if you lose it you become a Hero again? A Demigod? Or you are dead as your mortal self don’t exist anymore?


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    • #3
      To add another comment partially unrelated to the previous, all the Romana Interpretatio of the Gaul gods, would be the original gods trying to flee to the roman side as their people and pantheon were destroyed.

      Imagine the gods building new mantels to be respected by the Romans and later having to pay tribute to the Theoi for using their names. Very Roman to be honest...


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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
        To add another comment partially unrelated to the previous, all the Romana Interpretatio of the Gaul gods, would be the original gods trying to flee to the roman side as their people and pantheon were destroyed.

        Imagine the gods building new mantels to be respected by the Romans and later having to pay tribute to the Theoi for using their names. Very Roman to be honest...
        I disagree...it was the Roman gods trying to take the Gaulic(?) mantles for themselves


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        • #5
          Originally posted by FallenEco View Post

          I disagree...it was the Roman gods trying to take the Gaulic(?) mantles for themselves
          Also possible. Both taken by force and taken the ones left behind when the Nemetondevos left the world.


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          • #6
            Something that come up in Percy-verse topic...

            In Scion, Apollo and Helios are the Mantles of same Sun Titan from Theoi, yes? So in Scion, if Helios is taken out, Apollo should also be - as they are Mantles of the same being? Or without Helios, would Apollo still exist? And if one of them is take out - would Sun simply stop shine until Sun Titan would be reinstated?
            Last edited by wyrdhamster; 09-04-2020, 11:29 PM.


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            • #7
              I don't think Apollo and Helios are supposed to be the same person. I would assume that their relationship parallels how it was in history, both were independent deities but Apollo gradually was able to claim the Sun God mantle from Helios as he established himself as a Solar deity.

              In this context, the mantle is more important than either of them. Either could use the mantle if push comes to shove, or another scion could inherit it themselves. The Sun won't actually stop shining (for the Theoi) until there's no one available to actually fly the chariot across the sky.

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              • #8
                Whoever holds the Mantle of Apollo is Apollo. Mayhaps it is a slightly different Apollo, but if someone walks like Apollo, grants visions like Apollo, answers to Apollo, and has golden arrows like Apollo, then they're probably Apollo.

                While Apollo later on got a lot of Sun Associations (mostly in being Shiny and Gold), I don't believe Classical Helios and Apollo were often considered interchangeable. In my Scion games I'd probably keep the two separate.

                If it happens to be the same Being who shifts between two Mantles... Isn't something I'll speculate on. When wearing the Apollo hat, they're Apollo.

                Semi-related, the Deva must get funky with their Mantles, given how often the theme of "We are all but aspects reflecting of the greater whole" comes up.


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                • #9
                  I imagine that Apollo might have absorbed the Titan Helios's mantle at some point, but I certainly would argue they are different beings in the World, most of time.


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                  • #10
                    It's based on Percy-verse analysis, not Scion direct materials, but seems to working with both real world mythologies and Interpretatio Graeca about Mantles of Greek and Romans gods -

                    Riordian Wikia:
                    'Clovis explained that the reason of such different behavior is because the Gods' Roman counterparts are more disciplined and warlike, and therefore stricter than their Greek aspects. He also went on to claim that some Gods' behavior can be so different in their Roman form that, rather than being a distinct aspect, they may became a distinct personality of such Gods. This is evident on Mars, who is a dedicated strategist and dislikes unnecessary bloodshed, in stark contrast to Ares, his true Greek form, who loves the idea of combat and violence. Also, as shown in The Son of Neptune some Greek Gods become less respected when they are transitioned to a Roman form. In the case of Poseidon becoming Neptune, the Romans tended to fear the sea and so Neptune was less respected. Also shown, some Gods become more respected such as Mars who is respected to the point where only Jupiter is considered above him. As a result of this transition between aspects, the Gods' domain can either change or become more dominant than others as the case of Neptune being more focused on horses rather than the Sea (as Poseidon) and Pluto being more focused on riches rather than the underworld (as Hades).

                    However, as revealed in The Mark of Athena, there are some Gods/Goddesses that have so few different changes between Greek and Roman even they don't consider themselves changed. For example, Nemesis and Aphrodite/Venus state that because Revenge and Love are universal they don't change between their different aspects at all. Heracles/Hercules mentioned as well that he didn't feel that he had been changed very much between his Greek and Roman aspects although most people refer to him by his Roman aspect "Hercules".

                    It is noted in The House of Hades that minor Gods and Goddesses are less affected if there is a war between Greek and Roman aspects with only mild headaches as a result of less prayers and worship.

                    In The Blood of Olympus it was revealed that Artemis and Apollo could escape going crazy during the war between Greek and Roman children by going to their birthplace Delos. However leaving the area would cause them to lose control and have their powers nullified.'
                    Last edited by wyrdhamster; 09-05-2020, 06:36 AM.


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                    • #11
                      Apollo and Helios are different persons and use different mantles, what they share is the chariot (the sun).

                      While Apollo was taking his time with his sister in Delos, Helios was riding the chariot, same for most of the time Apollo was doing his stuff, when turned into hero by Zeus to learn a lesson, or doing poetry and flirting with ladies.
                      He is in the chariot when he is expected to be there, and that’s the point of Persiverse, the gods are locked by what is expected of them all the time, including mantle and behavior. It’s like Scion, but on a more restricted way, where gods are so affected by Fate that is basically unplayable.
                      Last edited by Mateus Luz; 09-05-2020, 08:30 AM.


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                      • #12
                        Easy to solve.

                        Helios drives the Sun Chariot Mondays, Wednesdays, Fridays and on the first and third Sundays of the month. Apollo drives it on Tuesdays, Thursdays, Saturdays and on the second and fourth Sundays of the month.

                        Solved.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Manbat View Post
                          Easy to solve.
                          ...
                          Solved.
                          Must send this suggestion to them... do you have a golden dracna?

                          By the way, your work on Imperium and all the religion and mantels for the gods is great! Not to tell the ideas for bringing the empire all the way to modern time (without making the empire itself last that long)


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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Manbat View Post
                            Easy to solve.

                            (...)

                            Solved.
                            Helios and Apollo - Divorce of the Marriage we did not know about...


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                              Must send this suggestion to them... do you have a golden dracna?

                              By the way, your work on Imperium and all the religion and mantels for the gods is great! Not to tell the ideas for bringing the empire all the way to modern time (without making the empire itself last that long)
                              Not a golden dracma yet, but I will put this as suggested price for my next project hh

                              Also, thanks for the compliment. I am glad you appreciate. It wasnt all that hard, much of our society comes straight form the Roman Empire, from legal institutions and titles to names of regions. Also, people have been trying to imitate Rome since Rome fell, so there is plenty of opportunities for the supernatural to find a classic place to nest in.

                              Going back to the topic of Mantles, I backed the Demigod book a while ago, and while reading with my game group, one decided that he wanted to get the Mantle of Mars related to keeping society working (the system of Rome). After some deliberation, and considering Phobos and Deimos are deities that also share mantles with Mars, I considered that this aspect actually fit into the deity of Romulos, that would also share this Mantle with Mars. So he will start a Demigod quest to usurp Romulus Mantle, that is shared with Mars. It makes sense (and is quite interesting) in my opnion, but what do you guys think about it? Sound like a valid Mantle work?

                              - In short: could a shared Mantle be Usurped?
                              (If we need to get into epithets, Romulus would probably share two mantles with Mars: Quirinos and Pater)

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