multi attacks

[Nutsupial]

sorry if this has been answered elsewhere, I was doing some browsing and couldn't find it. I was reading the TC Core Rulebook and they had some rules for multiple attacks in a round that Scion doesn't have. My question is, is Scion supposed to use this? If so, how do story guides implement it? I was just curious as it seemed neat and it seems weird to me that I can't find the rules for it in Scion: Origin, also are there any specifics for multiple attacks against the same character?

Thanks for any advice/comments!

[Mateus Luz]

Multi attacks are a mixed action, and so, the rules are basically the same, split the success among the attacks to beat difficulties and buy stunts and complications for each action, the difference is only that the difficulty is the targets defenses and the available stunts are the combat stunts.

The rules that are missing are dual wielding against a single target, but I don’t think it’s what you are talking about.

[Nutsupial]

That isn't what I was talking about and in the TC core under combat they have it just as a multi-action, for multiple attacks against the same target do you use dual wielding rules? If so, where are those located? (if at all)

[Mateus Luz]

There is no rule for Dual Weilding, at least not official. I just consider the character is doing a mixed action and can cause 2 injuries if he beats the defense twice (and can even do 2 criticals if have enough successes).

I am not sure what rules for multiple attacks you are talking about, because as far as I know there is no rules for multiple attacks against the same character in Trinity. Can you point in the book?
By default, when you say you are attacking the target, you can do several attacks (check empty magazine stunt for example) and the results will be a single injury that is the sum of all the impacts (or 2 if you do critical). Multiple attacks as mixed action is against more than one target.

[Florin]

I treat dual wielding as letting the player use their choice of wielded weapon for purposes of applying enhancements and tags. (Although the shield tag always applies.) So, it grants them more options rather than letting them do twice as much damage. I feel being able to inflict more than two injury conditions without a scale advantage goes against the spirit of the rules.

And Mateus is correct about attacking the same target. Each attack roll is considered your very best attempt to injure the target that round. So, making multiple rolls doesn't make sense.

[Mateus Luz]

Your approach is also very interesting. Maybe using both weapon tags (only the highest enhancement apply), after all you are hitting with both weapons and probably can take advantage of both somehow. I will try it next game (if some one tries to dual wield)

I have to add that the secondary hand have a +1 in the difficulty, what makes even a minor threat as hard to hit with both weapons as it is to hit and do a critical. So, unless you have 11 (3 defense + 4 crit +3 defense + 1 increase in defense) success you will not cause 3 injuries with a single attack against a minor threat.

Edit: A ambidextrous with brutal may require “only” 9 successes for 3 injuries and 12 successes for 4 injuries. Only Novas can do this kind of thing honestly...

[Florin]

The potential problem I saw with using both weapon tags and applying the highest enhancement is what happens if you mix a lethal and a non-lethal weapon? How does that get applied? I figured you'd choose which to use, but then if you have to choose that, why don't you have to choose anything else? Which is what led me to my decision to let them just choose which weapon gets applied for the attack.

I have a bio-kinetic in my game who could get 12 success if he used all his bonuses.

[Mateus Luz]

The potential problem I saw with using both weapon tags and applying the highest enhancement is what happens if you mix a lethal and a non-lethal weapon? How does that get applied? I figured you'd choose which to use, but then if you have to choose that, why don't you have to choose anything else? Which is what led me to my decision to let them just choose which weapon gets applied for the attack.

True. Good point.

I have a bio-kinetic in my game who could get 12 success if he used all his bonuses.

Yes, this guy worth doing 4 injuries in a single round against a minor threat, to be honest.
You can do the same with a focused Talent, my last game one talent got probably around that many successes when fighting the Red Widow, it was... unpredictable... but fun for sure.

[Kyman201]

I don't think you can make Mixed Actions with the same action twice in Scion.

And I don't need really substantial rules for using multiple weapons. I'm perfectly fine with someone using twin pistols in Equilibrium-style Gunkata being equally as viable as the person with a sword or a shotgun. Because you know what happens when you get that granular?

D&D Multi-weapon fighting happens. And it sucks. "Here, you get an extra attack. You take minus a bajillion points to it because we can't risk using two short swords being better than a swing greatsword."

I don't need Scion to be that simulationist.

[HighPriest]

I'm pretty sure you can do the same action twice (at least, I'm not aware of anywhere it is forbidden), but there aren't a lot of combat actions described in the rules so you'd have to come up with one that would make sense to do twice. Attacks would make conceptual sense to, say, attempt to attack two opponents, but attacking twice in a mixed action is explicitly forbidden. Likewise, using two simple boons is another thing you might want to do, but is also forbidden. Possibly feats of strength type stuff?

The only action I'm absolutely certain can be done twice is commanding a group/mob follower unit to act twice. That's actually the only spelled out mechanical benefit of the group tag. Even then, I'd be hard pressed to suggest what you'd want them do actually do twice, since the tags don't specifically remove the restriction on attacking twice and I believe a group/mob of followers is considered a single "unit". You also can't attack on the same action you command your follower to attack, which is a bummer for commander/warrior types.

[Mateus Luz]

You can’t attack twice the same target, but you can attack multiple targets at the same round. For example you can take down multiple minor characters if have enough successes with a single attack roll, what is basically mixed action, as you split the successes among multiple actions (individual attacks).

[Kyman201]

I mean "Spread out your successes to attack multiple targets" is something that specifically applies to Mooks, and that it specifically calls out Mooks makes me imagine that that's not standard for other Antagonists in Scion.

[Mateus Luz]

For a High Legend Hero and certainly Demigods, whenever Scale comes to play, it’s going to be easy to beat more than just Mooks with a single attack.

Well, Scale itself allow the Scion to attack everybody equally as you can consider the group as an individual of higher scale, but in this case you lose the advantage of causing more than 2 injuries as the Target has higher scale too.

[Florin]

Under Step 1 of Attack Resolution (Origin, pg. 115) it says "Declare your target (or targets)[.]" It doesn't make a distinction between trivial and non-trivial antagonists.

[Kyman201]

Oh yeah, when Scale gets involved you have access to Shockwave, so that'll do ya for batting back five enemies with one blow