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[2E] How long each Tier should take?

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  • [2E] How long each Tier should take?

    For example, how many sessions would take Origin characters to become Hero level ones? At minimum?


    My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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    LGBT+ in CoD games

  • #2
    Depends on the projected time scale of gameplay and the desired rate of progression. If you have 12 sessions and the group wants to do the current full run from Origin to Demigod with decent exploration of each tier, you have four sessions Pre-Visitation, four as a Hero, and four as a Demigod. If you have 52 sessions, and people do want to eventually move onto Hero but aren't in a rush for it, could be anywhere from maybe 26 sessions to 51 sessions before switching to Hero.


    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
    Feminine pronouns, please.

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    • #3
      I directly mean minimum math on each Tier - all I need for mechanical next change of Tiers is only coming from Legend 0 till Legend 1 to change from Origin to Hero?
      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 10-28-2020, 03:05 AM.


      My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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      LGBT+ in CoD games

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      • #4
        The only thing that even remotely limits how long to spend at Origin level is wanting to avoid character starting to get same-y. Origin level characters don't have a lot of spend XP on, so in a longer game following the recommended XP rates, you're probably going to want to get to Hero before that's an issue.

        -------

        There is no mechanical requirements for moving from Origin to Hero. Scions just need to get their Visitations to activate their divine status.
        Last edited by Heavy Arms; 10-28-2020, 03:44 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
          There is no mechanical requirements for moving from Origin to Hero. Scions just need to get their Visitations to activate their divine status.
          No need to buy by XP the Legend 1 trait to come to Hero?


          My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
          LGBT+ through Ages
          LGBT+ in CoD games

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          • #6
            Legend doesn't cost XP to raise. It goes up based on Deeds.

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            • #7
              What is calculation by Deeds then? Cause my book-fu is weak. 😔


              My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
              LGBT+ through Ages
              LGBT+ in CoD games

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              • #8
                Complete one Short-term Deed, one Long-term Deed, and one Band Deed to increase in Legend. This makes calculating the minimum number of sessions difficult.

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                • #9
                  Every dot in legend costs 1 short term, 1 long term and 1 band deed.

                  It can be done in 1 session, but usually it’s an entire story that may take longer. Honestly, Origin tier worth about the same as 1 dot of legend + visitation from patron god (the visitation itself is not more than a scene for each character, if happen durring play).

                  My group took 8 sessions (I think, I was not part of the group when they started) to get to Legend 1 and we are currently between session 3 and 4 of Legend 1.


                  House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                  Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                  Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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                  • #10
                    Long story short, this is not a thing you can just math away. It really depends on how you and your group plays it.


                    Sean K.I.W./Kelly R.A. Steele, Freelance Writer(Feel free to call me Sean, Kelly, Arcane, or Arc)
                    The world is not beautiful, therefore it is.-Keiichi Sigsawa, Kino's Journey
                    Feminine pronouns, please.

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                    • #11
                      Important to note that the entire Band has to be ready to raise their Legend at once -- everyone's Legend goes up at the same time. Players are likely to complete multiple Short-Term Deeds and perhaps Long-Term Deeds before a Band Deed is finished, but if a player hasn't completed a Long Term Deed by the time the Band Deed is accomplished, everyone has to wait until those players complete a set. This might be problematic if a player has chosen a Long-Term deed with the expectation that it's a Series-long goal -- you'll want to encourage multi-step Deeds if there's a throughline a character wants to follow for the entire life of the character. (I mention this because I had this issue with Long-Term Aspirations in CoD)

                      If you want a good benchmark for time, check out the Time Section in the Three Areas of Action heading of the Origin book, page 71.


                      When the cat's a Stray, the mice will pray...

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                      • #12
                        Long term aspirations are the hard issue I think can make everything harder. My first long term aspiration for Scion was to reach a Terra Incógnita, the problem is, it was not really the SG plan to take us to any one, and probably not many of them are at Legend 1 Heroes reach... so it can be disappointing. My suggestion is you should discuss long term aspirations with your local Fate representative (GM) as fate can be really annoying in Scion if you try to go against it, and a little coordination of grand objectives can be interesting for the group to level faster (of that is the objective).

                        Another idea I have is to make Campbell Hero Journey (I know people here don’t like him, but it’s a base for picking steps) to create the sequence of Legend steps, much like a Demogod have their own steps, heroes could have.


                        House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                        Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                        Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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                        • #13
                          Myself, I got the same problems with Long Term Aspirations in CoD. So in Scion, as SG, when running on Discord, I asked players to make separate channel for showing most important info about Band characters - and made explicitly separate posts for each of them Deeds. It nicely points to Short, Long and Band Deeds - so I easily can see always what are Deeds for them, taking them in mind. I also all the time have their Long Term Deeds in my mind - one of character wants to have 'make a heist of the century' and other one 'discover truth about my parents'. So I add them as middle plot points, hanging in the game world, only to uncover by the players in good time.

                          Originally posted by Mateus Luz View Post
                          Another idea I have is to make Campbell Hero Journey (I know people here don’t like him, but it’s a base for picking steps) to create the sequence of Legend steps, much like a Demogod have their own steps, heroes could have.
                          So slicing 'One Grand Character Goal' in to few smaller Long Term Deeds then, yes?
                          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 01-18-2021, 03:37 AM.


                          My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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                          • #14
                            It’s far from structured by now, but the general idea is you gain 4 Legend in the long Hero’s Journey instead of individual deeds.

                            The first legend is the call of adventure, that can be a visitation, or can be anything else that fits the concept.

                            The second legend would be related to resisting temptations or to resisting the fact your fate is being the Hero

                            The third is the apex of the Journey, when the Hero embrace fate and changes how he sees the world and how the world sees the Hero (after that heroes gain omens, what fits the case perfectly)

                            The last Hero legend is about returning to the known world and facing the results of your journey, it may be the Hero becoming the leader of their community, or the Hero understanding they don’t belong to the community anymore.

                            It would also open the door to the Demigod Circle, with a Hero going after immortality after not fitting in mundane society, or with a new threat that surges and force them to the circle, but now on a larger scale, as even their powers as leader of community and hero of the world is not enough to defeat.


                            House Rules - The Basics - House Rules for Trinity Continuum
                            Fists of Flux - Inspired and Powered Martial Arts for Talents
                            Tomes of Inspiration - Rituals and Dark Magic in Fists of Flux

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                            • #15
                              And so, each Heroes Long Term Deed should be next Hero Journey point, yes? So Call Deed on Legend 1, Resisting Deed on Legend 2, Embrace Deed on Legend 3 and Return Deed at Legend 4, yes?


                              My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                              LGBT+ through Ages
                              LGBT+ in CoD games

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