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  • [2E] Mortal Antagonists

    I'm starting Origin tier game - and want to confront my players with some mortal enemies - like russian mob or esoterics archeologiests. I look for stats of those for Scion - or will make them if those are none existing.


    My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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    LGBT+ in CoD games

  • #2
    On Origin page 144-145 you have antagonist archetypes. The Mook, Professional, VIllain and Monster. Just use them as references and flesh them out a little if you need to.

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    • #3
      To build on that... Remember, your antagonists are as deadly as you need them to be. If you need a mortal antagonist to be Sid the Squid, the absolute D-tier mook, then you can stat him that way.

      If you need a mortal antagonist to be goddamn John Wick and so tenacious and deadly that even Heroes know better than to take him lightly, you can give him the Villain archetype and some custom Flairs and Qualities to make him a legitimate threat.


      Disclaimer: In favor of fun and enjoyment, but may speak up to warn you that you're gonna step on a metaphorical land mine

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      • #4
        Notice: I will edit each new Archetypes below when ending it’s write-up.

        Mafia/Mob

        I propose here typical Mafia hierarchy, based on this Italian kind – however most crime syndicates follow very similar structures. As Storyguide, add some cultural and local variants to possible traits those Archetypes have. Here is typical syndicate – called Family – structure:





        MOOK – Mob ‘Soldier’

        Soldiers are lowers ranked members of each Mafia. They are typical doing ‘convincing’ for smaller targets of Family - intimidation and extortion. They are also foot soldiers in times of gang wars between syndicates.

        Archetype: Mook
        Qualities: Group Tactics, Twitchy
        Flairs: Dread Gaze ( Intimidation ). Spray n’ Pray (H&K submachine gun)
        Drive: To fulfill command of Copo or Don
        Primary Pool (5): Intimidation, Combat, Shooting
        Secondary Pool (4): Athletics, Streetwise
        Desperation Pool: 2
        Defense: 2
        Initiative: 4
        Attacks:
        H&K submachine gun – Enhancement 2, Ballistic, Ranged: Medium, Automatic, Quality 1
        Fists – Enhancement 1 ( Close Combat Training )

        PROFESSIONAL – Capo(regime)

        Also known simply as Captain, it’s rank is marking him as veteran of Family operations. Is leader for each crew of Soldiers and has major social status and influence in the organization. He answers directly to Don ( Boss ) or an Underboss.
        ‘Capo has strength in his crew – in brackets are his stats when surrounded by his crew. He also rising his crews Defense, Enhancement and Health by 1.
        Archetype: Professional
        Qualities: A Cut Above (+1 Enhancement, Choose from: Combat/Intimidation/Shooting ), Group Tactics, Institutional Disbelief, Twitchy, Slothful Resilience ( Mob dedication )
        Flairs: Dread Gaze ( Intimidation ). Spray n’ Pray (H&K submachine gun), Long Arm ( Boxing grip ), Inspiration ( Families Command ), Seeing Red
        Drive: To fulfill command of Don
        Primary Pool (7): Combat, Intimidation, Leadership, Shooting
        Secondary Pool (5): Athletics, Streetwise
        Desperation Pool: 3
        Health: 2 (‘3)
        Defense: 3 (‘4)
        Initiative: 5 (+2e )
        Attacks:
        H&K submachine gun – Enhancement 1 (‘2), Ballistic, Ranged: Medium, Automatic, Quality 1
        Pistol ( Desert Eagle ) – Enhancement 1 (‘2), Firearm (0), Lethal (0), Loud (-1), Piercing (2), Ranged (0)
        Fists – Enhancement 1 (‘2), ( Close Combat Training )

        VILLAIN – Assassin

        VILLAIN – Don ( Boss )
        Last edited by wyrdhamster; 11-17-2020, 06:06 PM.


        My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
        LGBT+ through Ages
        LGBT+ in CoD games

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        • #5
          First take on the Capo as Professional Archetype for Mob...

          PROFESSIONAL – Capo(regime)

          Also known simply as Captain, it’s rank is marking him as veteran of Family operations. Is leader for each crew of Soldiers and has major social status and influence in the organization. He answers directly to Don ( Boss ) or an Underboss.
          ‘Capo has strength in his crew – in brackets are his stats when surrounded by his crew. He also rising his crews Defense, Enhancement and Health by 1.
          Archetype: Professional
          Qualities: A Cut Above (+1 Enhancement, Choose from: Combat/Intimidation/Shooting ), Group Tactics, Institutional Disbelief, Twitchy, Slothful Resilience ( Mob dedication )
          Flairs: Dread Gaze ( Intimidation ). Spray n’ Pray (H&K submachine gun), Long Arm ( Boxing grip ), Inspiration ( Families Command ), Seeing Red
          Drive: To fulfill command of Don
          Primary Pool (7): Combat, Intimidation, Leadership, Shooting
          Secondary Pool (5): Athletics, Streetwise
          Desperation Pool: 3
          Health: 2 (‘3)
          Defense: 3 (‘4)
          Initiative: 5 (+2e )
          Attacks:
          H&K submachine gun – Enhancement 1 (‘2), Ballistic, Ranged: Medium, Automatic, Quality 1
          Pistol ( Desert Eagle ) – Enhancement 1 (‘2), Firearm (0), Lethal (0), Loud (-1), Piercing (2), Ranged (0)
          Fists – Enhancement 1 (‘2), ( Close Combat Training )
          Last edited by wyrdhamster; 11-17-2020, 06:05 PM.


          My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
          LGBT+ through Ages
          LGBT+ in CoD games

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
            To build on that... Remember, your antagonists are as deadly as you need them to be. If you need a mortal antagonist to be Sid the Squid, the absolute D-tier mook, then you can stat him that way.

            If you need a mortal antagonist to be goddamn John Wick and so tenacious and deadly that even Heroes know better than to take him lightly, you can give him the Villain archetype and some custom Flairs and Qualities to make him a legitimate threat.
            S&M will likely expand on the diegetic setting niche of Saints as “Mortals who punch above their weight class”. Not disagreeing on the use of qualities and flairs for mortal antagonists, I just know some people get hung up on setting verisimilitude and may feel they need more justification for a mortal being able to hold their own with a Scion, and I think Saints are going to help fill in that niche.

            I’ve also played at my own table with Fatebound mortal npcs picking up qualities and flairs that fit their role (including as nemeses) as the tides of fate backs them up in that specific capacity.


            Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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            • #7
              General schema of Loyalists of Thule as Antagonists group. I will edit the post when preparing stats for those archetypes.

              Notice: This is antagonistic version of Hunter: The Vigil group, adapted as Antagonists for the Scion games. For more information on Loyalists, see HtV corebook 1st or 2nd Edition.

              Esoterica Hunters – Loyalists of Thule

              Thule Gehellschaft (Thule Society) was German occult group that started in 1918, revolving around research into nations mystical origins – and to uncover all the secrets of the World. It quickly evolved, taking more and more political ideas into it, springing into German National Socialist party, a.k.a. the Nazis. Thule still existed, but only as esoteric arm of the party – until it was officially banned with other lodges and societies in 1937. Unofficially, Thule members still worked, sometimes for Nazis in World War 2, sometimes on their own hand. After War, Thule separated it clearly from day-to-day politics, going totally underground, double down on it’s esoteric goals, starting their chapter houses where they can. Today, Loyalists are renown artifacts hunters and occult scientist – they only have problem with sticking with bad people to get to their researches.

              MOOK – Thule Researcher

              Singular researcher, expert on some <Occult topic> – and getting it.
              Archetype: Mook
              Drive: To uncover secrets of <Occult topic>
              Qualities: Cross-Training, Helpless Fascination ( <Occult topic> )
              Primary Pool (5): Occult, Academics
              Secondary Pool (4): Shooting, Persuasion
              Desperation Pool: 2
              Health: 1
              Defense: 1
              Initiative: 3
              Attacks:
              Fists – Enhancement 1 ( Close Combat Training )
              Pistol – Enhancement 1, Firearm (0), Lethal (0), Piercing (2), Ranged (0), Reset (-1)

              MOOK – ‘Far-Right’ Muscle

              Thule is independent from day-to-day politics – but still likes to employ strength of those that sympathize with ‘Far-Right’ in nowadays. If they give themselves to be used - why not use them. Most researchers still need good muscle guys to cover their backs.
              Archetype: Mook
              Drive: To help ‘great and in-danger empire’ / white race / etc.
              Qualities: Stand Tall, Improvised Weapon ( +1 Enhancement for Improvised Weapons, counted below )
              Flairs: Seeing Red, Selfless Shield
              Primary Pool (5): Combat, Intimidation,
              Secondary Pool (4): Athletics, Streetwise, Politics
              Desperation Pool: 2
              Health: 1
              Defense: 1
              Initiative: 3
              Attacks:
              Improvised Weapon ( Club, knife, etc. ) – Enhancement 1, Delicate ( On attack roll with any 1s, weapon is destroyed and need new one be created )
              Metal Chain – Enhancement 1, Bashing (0), Melee (0), Reach (1)
              Fists – Enhancement 1 ( Close Combat Training )

              PROFESSIONAL – Chapter Leader

              Leader of researchers in region, master of experts in some particular occult field – but, also, good coordinator of others works.

              PROFESSIONAL – Special Units / like Neo-Nazis Flame Throwers? /

              Expert ‘direct’ units to disarm monsters. Legacy of Nazis experiments groups, many times as Super Soldiers.

              VILLAIN – Leading Archeologist

              Expert of experts in some particular occult field. Living only to uncover knowledge. At all costs!

              MONSTERS – Many 😉
              Last edited by wyrdhamster; 08-30-2021, 04:04 AM.


              My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
              LGBT+ through Ages
              LGBT+ in CoD games

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              • #8
                The Thule Society are a official Vigil so I don't see a problem here. Mind you, I always felt it was weird that they were a heroic group in the first place.


                Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by CTPhipps View Post
                  The Thule Society are a official Vigil so I don't see a problem here. Mind you, I always felt it was weird that they were a heroic group in the first place.
                  They are considered a heroic group because their founders used to be active Nazis and now profess to be deeply ashamed of that, so they strive to stop something like Nazi Germany to happen again while hunting for monsters and forbidden lore. Of course, they probably have their own dark secrets too, at the discretion of the game group.

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                  • #10
                    I would steer far away from using Nazi or Nazi-like antagonists in Scion unless they were portrayed as ineffectual and pathetic, for reasons described in the now closed "God and the Alt-Right" thread.

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                    • #11
                      PXGentleman - Great for your table, those write-ups are for people wanting to use 'dark Thule' in their games.

                      ​Drafts of Thule Researcher and 'Far-Right' Muscle to talk about.

                      MOOK – Thule Researcher

                      Singular researcher, expert on some <Occult topic> – and getting it.
                      Archetype: Mook
                      Drive: To uncover secrets of <Occult topic>
                      Qualities: Cross-Training, Helpless Fascination ( <Occult topic> )
                      Primary Pool (5): Occult, Academics
                      Secondary Pool (4): Shooting, Persuasion
                      Desperation Pool: 2
                      Health: 1
                      Defense: 1
                      Initiative: 3
                      Attacks:
                      Fists – Enhancement 1 ( Close Combat Training )
                      Pistol – Enhancement 1, Firearm (0), Lethal (0), Piercing (2), Ranged (0), Reset (-1)

                      MOOK – ‘Far-Right’ Muscle

                      Thule is independent from day-to-day politics – but still likes to employ strength of those that sympathize with ‘Far-Right’ in nowadays. If they give themselves to be used - why not use them. Most researchers still need good muscle guys to cover their backs.
                      Archetype: Mook
                      Drive: To help ‘great and in-danger empire’ / white race / etc.
                      Qualities: Stand Tall, Improvised Weapon ( +1 Enhancement for Improvised Weapons, counted below )
                      Flairs: Seeing Red, Selfless Shield
                      Primary Pool (5): Combat, Intimidation,
                      Secondary Pool (4): Athletics, Streetwise, Politics
                      Desperation Pool: 2
                      Health: 1
                      Defense: 1
                      Initiative: 3
                      Attacks:
                      Improvised Weapon ( Club, knife, etc. ) – Enhancement 1, Delicate ( On attack roll with any 1s, weapon is destroyed and need new one be created )
                      Metal Chain – Enhancement 1, Bashing (0), Melee (0), Reach (1)
                      Fists – Enhancement 1 ( Close Combat Training )


                      My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                      LGBT+ through Ages
                      LGBT+ in CoD games

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                      • #12
                        We are almost year later and my Scion game with Thule need a really, heavy punchers on Legend 1 players Scions. So what do you guys think about them?

                        Scion Hunters

                        Thule Commando variant – best of the best – they are given Anti-Scion weapons to make defeating pesky Scions easier. Finding Atlantean tech, Thule reverse engineered some Relics as weapons that nullified Ichor in Scions blood. Only problem is that it needs the Scion’s Ichor in the first place… Scion Hunters are for fighting those Chosen of Gods – or to steal their precious Ichor, to create more this Anti-Ichor weapons. Often they are lead by the Scions working for Thule. ( Yes, there are some traitors like those. )

                        Archetype: Nemesis ( Hero Archetype )
                        Drive: To hunt & fight Scions
                        Qualities: Mystical Arsenal ( Hero, Anti-Ichor Rifle), Group Tactics, Heavily Armored ( +1 Hard, + 2 Soft Armor ), Cross-Training
                        Flairs: Spray N’ Pray, Selfless Shield. I Have Friends, Detonation ( Hero, Hand Grenades ), Penetrator ( Hero, pierce Armor ), Suck It Up ( Hero, Health reset & bonus on attack )
                        Primary Pool (11): Close Combat, Ranged Combat, Intimidation
                        Secondary Pool (9): Athletics, Occult
                        Desperation Pool: 6
                        Health: 6 (?*)
                        Defense: 6 (?*)
                        Initiative: 9

                        Attacks:
                        Anti-Ichor Rifle – Enhancement 2 – Tags: Firearm (2), Anti-Ichor ( Legend Drain, 5 ), Lethal (0), Loud (-1), Piercing (2), Ranged (0), Two-Handed (-1) / Because of Mystical Arsenal, can be +4 Enhancement with Tension 1 /
                        Military Knife – Enhancement 2, Lethal (0), Piercing (2)
                        Fists in Armor Gloves – Enhancement 1, Close Combat Training



                        Anti-Ichor ( Legend Drain ) – Weapon Tag 5

                        This weapon is made to fight with Scions. Made by foul magic or advanced technology, is dedicated in attacking godly Ichor in veins of Scions. Each hit by this weapon spend Legend point in the target. When target is lowered to Legend 0 by this, Scion loose access to Purviews and other magic and Immortal Knacks – but not Heroic Knacks. Target can still use Relics that do not need the spending of Legend, like Origin Scions can. Regaining Legend lost by hit with weapon requires the close contact with Purviews sources for one hour, at least one for each Legend point. Scion with Sky Purview need to glide in the sky, holder of Fortune Purview need to go to casino, etc.



                        My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                        LGBT+ through Ages
                        LGBT+ in CoD games

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                        • #13
                          Liked a lot of what I saw here. The Thule society looks like a cool type of Origin antagonist and that anyone can reskin in many different shapes, with the atention previously mentioned about the complications in portraying that kind of political thinking.

                          The Legend Drain mechanics are also good because they seem serious enough to be a worry, but not so drastical as "Drain Level" and the likes are in D&D. Since the Legend "drained" is not transfered to another place, I think "Legend Drain" is more to "Legend Ceasing" (it just interrupts your access to it "for a while"), but just a very small detail. The work is really great.

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