Character Creation Scion 2E

[ElfSpeaker]

6. So 'first chosen Knack' from Calling at Origin tier is also Heroic Knack? Or Heroic Knacks ar only in Hero book and two alternative to Birghtrights are OTHER kind than those from Origin book? 🤔

The Heroic Knacks appear in both Origin and Hero and are the ones available to Origin characters. Origina characters can take two of these during the final touches.

mmortal knacks are only available to Hero-tier and above. For character creation purposes, they "cost" two knacks relative to the Heroic Knacks.

[Geoffrey]

6. So 'first chosen Knack' from Calling at Origin tier is also Heroic Knack? Or Heroic Knacks ar only in Hero book and two alternative to Birghtrights are OTHER kind than those from Origin book? 🤔

I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Tell me if this helps:

1. At Origin, your character gets 1 Knack (from the Origin book). Choose it from the general Knack list or the one for your Calling.
1a. If the effect of the Knack mentions your Calling dots, you are assumed to have 1 dot in your Calling.
2. You can add 2 more Knacks in the Finishing Touches part of character creation (Origin, p.98), but remember that you can only have 1 active at a time (i.e., during a session).
3. You can later spend 10 XP to buy another Knack (still from the Origin book), but can still only have 1 active at a time.
3a. You cannot buy Immortal Knacks (from the Hero book) yet, because they require you to have 2 dots in a Calling. (Hero, p.183)

[wyrdhamster]

Thanks, Geoffrey , it really clears Knacks issues.

7. Are Virtues mandatory on Origin tier? If yes, what do they add to the game? Can characters change Virtues of their Pantheon to other, unique to character?

[Kyman201]

Thanks, Geoffrey , it really clears Knacks issues.

7. Are Virtues mandatory on Origin tier? If yes, what do they add to the game? Can characters change Virtues of their Pantheon to other, unique to character?

Origin pre-Visitation Scions do not get Virtues. They manifest post-Visitatiom. As for what they do, I made a post about them, give me time to track it down and i'll link it

But Virtues are intended to be associated with Pantheons. Though if you break away from your Pantheon entirely you could possibly gain separate Virtues.

Edit: Okay here we go-

Alright the bulk of the explanation is on page 162-163 of the Origin book, but I'll lay it out here.

Every Pantheon has a pair of Virtues attributed to them. These are two values that often crop up in the stories of this Pantheon. This is demonstrated via your character having a five-point bar, with one Virtue at each end. Let's pick, oh, the Teotl Virtues (because I like the Teotl). The Teotl Virtues are Hunger, a desire for MORE, more Glory, more Prestige, more Wealth, more Power... And Sacrifice, the Virtue of granting something significant for something greater than yourself.

So we'll have Ash, a DJ Scion of Xochipilli. She starts with her Virtue Bar centered, like so:

Hunger O O X O O Sacrifice

Certain actions can resonate with one of these Virtues. If you take an action that does so (and you'll be declaring this to your GM most of the time), you can spend Momentum to enhance your roll. Doing so will grant you a bonus die for the Momentum you spend. This will also move you one step along the bar towards the end with that virtue.

So let's say that Ash, in combat, decides to go for broke and instead of setting up an attack for an ally, she goes for the kill, for personal desire of having the killing blow. I, her player, argue that this kind of personal interest would resonate with Hunger. Let's assume the GM agrees, so I spend my Momentum to enhance the roll, and gain two dice for the one Momentum spent. I would then move the point for her Virtue Bar like so-

Hunger O X O O O Sacrifice

With me so far? Good. Now, if say, Ash made a major action that resonated with Sacrifice (possibly by missing a major DJ gig to help her friends), I'd get the same benefit... But I'd nudge the point to the middle of the bar, since it resonates with Sacrifice. The marker also goes towards the middle of the bar if you make a very deliberate action that goes against the Virtue at the end. So if Ash were to deliberately turn down something of great personal value to her (say, a Relic being offered if she turns on her friends but she refuses), then the marker would go back to the middle.

As for Virtuous... Well let's go back to Ash, and say that she did enough Hunger-aligned things to push her Virtue Bar all the way to one end.

Hunger X O O O O Sacrifice

Right, so Ash has engaged the Virtuous Condition (detailed in a sidebar at the top of page 163) for Hunger. She is going to be difficult. When in the grips of the Virtuous Condition, you cannot go against the Virtue. Ash can't turn away something that furthers or speaks to her Desire for More. However, this has impressive benefits. See that line about how spending Momentum on an Action that resonates with a Virtue gets you a bonus die? The Virtuous Condition also gives a bonus die per point of Momentum you spend on a Virtue-aligned action.

Those stack. If Ash is in her Hunger Virtuous Condition and spends Momentum on a Hungry Action, she gets three dice per Momentum spent.

The Virtuous Condition also gives more Momentum if your Virtue Rage gets you or a friend in trouble.

You end this Condition by acting in a way that embraces the opposite Virtue while not necessarily acting against the one you're in. Or using the Balm Fatebinding benefit, that can work too.

Hope this helped.

[Aristarkos]

Origin pre-Visitation Scions do not get Virtues. They manifest post-Visitatiom.

Where in the Origins book is this said?

Why are they on the Origin character sheet if they are not in the game?

I don't mean to sound angry or annoyed, I'm just confused.

[Magicjohnny]

Yeah that’s something I’m curious about too

[Maitrecorbo]

Hm i think the Saint Denizen use the virtues even at the Origin tier.
So that may be why it was included in the character sheet.

[Kyman201]

Hm i think the Saint Denizen use the virtues even at the Origin tier.
So that may be why it was included in the character sheet.

Because while pre-Visitation Scions don't get Virtues, as noted, SAINTS do, even at Origin tier.

IIRC, the Origin book talking about Virtues in the Saint section says that Saints and Heroes get Virtues. So that says to me that Origin-tier pre-Visitation Scions do not get Virtues.

[Aristarkos]

I cannot find anything in the Origin book that explicitly or implicitly says that Origin characters do not have Virtues. On the contrary I read the sidebar on page 70 as saying explicitly that they do; it says that Scions and mortals known as Saints gain Virtues, and a pre-visitation Scion is still a Scion, right?

On page 162 it says that Saints gain Virtues but I see nothing that implies that this is in contrast to Scions, just that Saints are mortals who get Virtues.

Note that I did not read what the Hero book says about the matter, maybe it presents another picture.

Besides, Origin is more interesting with Virtues anyway since they represent how even Origin-level characters are larger than life.

[wyrdhamster]

8. Do Virtues are optional? I.E. Can character have other Virtues than his Pantheons ones?

[Kyman201]

8. Do Virtues are optional? I.E. Can character have other Virtues than his Pantheons ones?

If you have a Pantheon you will inherit those Virtues. That's how it works.

If you take the steps to break free of your Pantheon and remove yourself utterly, then you would gain your own Virtues

[wyrdhamster]

9. Having done some PC creations for few games, I often see in character creations that starting Origin characters have 5 in particular Skill - you only need to have Skill in your 1st and 2nd Path for that. My a bit problem is that 5 dot is 'world master / Olympics' level character - so it's a bit crash with starting Origin characters concepts. Should you move those 5th dots to other Skills? Or leave them at 5, even if it breaks a game setting logic a bit?

[Mateus Luz]

Not really. Origin level characters are the best among mortals, if you pick the heroic knacks they can have you will see some fantastical things, beyond human level, like metalworking without tools and killing people with paper clips, and they are not divine yet. Also, they attracted attention of the gods, if they are not their kids, that’s not something you do if you are not good in more than a few things.

[ElfSpeaker]

To echo the sentiment, even as an Origin level character, you're already exceptional. You should have skills that match you with world masters. Storypath in general focuses on characters with amazing skills from the get go.

[TheStray7]

So I want to know if I have this right for Hero-tier characters:

1. Immortal Knacks cost 2 "active" knack slots in play.
2. Immortal Knacks cost 2 knack choices at character creation.
3. Immortal Knacks and Heroic Knacks both cost 5 xp.

So you can buy a bunch of Immortal Knacks with XP if you want, but can't have as many active as you could Heroic Knacks.

Do I have that right?