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Esotericism in Scion

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  • #16
    As many traditions of esoteric thought held magic either came from a spark of divinity inherent in all humans or from a human achieving qualities of divinity, there need to be paths for Sorcerers without divine parents or patrons to achieve godhood or at least Demigod status.

    Heck even Medieval Arthurian texts described both Merlin and Morgaine le Fay as mortals that became gods or were at least mistaken for deities.

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    • #17
      Looking forward to Saints and Monsters

      Kyman201 what about the whole Grail bloodline thing from the Da Vinci Code?


      “No one holds command over me. No man, no god, no Prince. Call your damn Hunt. We shall see who I drag screaming down to hell with me.” The last Ahrimane says this when Mithras calls a Blood Hunt against her.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Penelope View Post
        Looking forward to Saints and Monsters

        Kyman201 what about the whole Grail bloodline thing from the Da Vinci Code?
        :P Conspiracy theories arising from a mediocre thriller is also not what I would classify as 'Myth'. Like if you want to use it, then I won't be able to stop you, but let's not claim that it's anything but, well, a conspiracy theory from a mediocre thriller.


        Disclaimer: In favor of fun and enjoyment, but may speak up to warn you that you're gonna step on a metaphorical land mine

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Penelope View Post
          Looking forward to Saints and Monsters

          Kyman201 what about the whole Grail bloodline thing from the Da Vinci Code?
          It can be a thing that people in the World believe even if it is not actually true. For example groups of people in France may think they are direct descendants of the Merovingian bloodline that supposedly carry the blood of Jesus and then try to form conspiracies together. I would use such groups as comic relief villains with delusions of grandeur far beyond their actual competence.

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          • #20
            With the gods being openly acknowledged in the world, esotericism seems out of place to me. Esoteric thought is all about hidden knowledge, mystic brotherhoods and mysteries. In the Scion 2e universe, keys to the magical cosmos are right out in the open, right?

            Now, Tabloid gospel and fringe groups following upcoming demigods are another story.


            “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
            Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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            • #21
              Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post
              With the gods being openly acknowledged in the world, esotericism seems out of place to me. Esoteric thought is all about hidden knowledge, mystic brotherhoods and mysteries. In the Scion 2e universe, keys to the magical cosmos are right out in the open, right?

              Now, Tabloid gospel and fringe groups following upcoming demigods are another story.

              The gods are known to exist, but that's historically true of many societies that ALSO have closed occult traditions. The Roman world both publically accepted the reality of the gods and had Mystery Cults.

              Of course some of this depends where you set the dial for how public the gods are. At my own table, for the general public, the manifest proof of the gods are Scions. The gods aren't doing magazine or television interviews, and the vast majority of humanity never (knowingly) encounter the divine in their lifetimes.


              Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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              • #22
                Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post
                With the gods being openly acknowledged in the world, esotericism seems out of place to me. Esoteric thought is all about hidden knowledge, mystic brotherhoods and mysteries. In the Scion 2e universe, keys to the magical cosmos are right out in the open, right?

                Now, Tabloid gospel and fringe groups following upcoming demigods are another story.
                Look. Baking is a science, essentially. Take atmospheric conditions into account, measure out the ingredients in the right amounts, mix, apply heat for the right amount of time. These are all very verifiable and quantifiable known processes.

                AND YET you still have people wondering what Grandma's secret brownie recipe is and she just laughs and says it'll be over her dead body.

                Also my day job is on the phone tech support and let me tell you: One person's very basic public knowledge is another person's super occultic secret ritual knowledge.


                Disclaimer: In favor of fun and enjoyment, but may speak up to warn you that you're gonna step on a metaphorical land mine

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                  The gods aren't doing magazine or television interviews, and the vast majority of humanity never (knowingly) encounter the divine in their lifetimes.
                  That would be funny though (in an awful sort of way). The infidelities of the gods becoming "hot steamy" tabloid fodder, Maury Povich trying to figure out is Zeus really is your daddy, etc.


                  “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
                  Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post

                    Look. Baking is a science, essentially. Take atmospheric conditions into account, measure out the ingredients in the right amounts, mix, apply heat for the right amount of time. These are all very verifiable and quantifiable known processes.

                    AND YET you still have people wondering what Grandma's secret brownie recipe is and she just laughs and says it'll be over her dead body.

                    Also my day job is on the phone tech support and let me tell you: One person's very basic public knowledge is another person's super occultic secret ritual knowledge.

                    True enough. I am an illustrator, and more than a few people think my art comes solely from inborn talent. Talent is important, but it's really about practice and hard work. I even had an EX girlfriend tell me that a "real" artist doesn't need practice and study.
                    Last edited by MythAdvocate; 11-19-2020, 02:10 PM.


                    “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
                    Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post

                      That would be funny though (in an awful sort of way). The infidelities of the gods becoming "hot steamy" tabloid fodder, Maury Povich trying to figure out is Zeus really is your daddy, etc.
                      Yes and that is an option of where you can set the dial. It’s just a bit sillier than I want at my own table as default. Scions can get those kind of spreads though.

                      What I go for is as close to “the World works the way people who wrote the mythic epics believe it did.... just with cars and smart phones” as I can - so humanity as a whole isn’t in the loop about what the gods are up to RIGHT NOW, even though their reality is an unquestioned fact, and events filter to them through the birth of Scions and new scriptures, etc.

                      Just like how a Cyclops probably doesn’t work at your office, but you’d have some idea as to where to head if you wanted to find one.


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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post

                        Yes and that is an option of where you can set the dial. It’s just a bit sillier than I want at my own table as default. Scions can get those kind of spreads though.

                        What I go for is as close to “the World works the way people who wrote the mythic epics believe it did.... just with cars and smart phones” as I can - so humanity as a whole isn’t in the loop about what the gods are up to RIGHT NOW, even though their reality is an unquestioned fact, and events filter to them through the birth of Scions and new scriptures, etc.

                        Just like how a Cyclops probably doesn’t work at your office, but you’d have some idea as to where to head if you wanted to find one.

                        For my tastes, it would probably be how the supernatural is treated in the Ghostbusters franchise. It is clearly real, everyone has seen footage, maybe witnessed it in real life. But most people put it to the back of their heads and get on with their lives.

                        I like the Cyclops example. But I am a sucker for the Cyclops and Minotaur. They really wowed me as a kid.


                        “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
                        Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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                        • #27
                          I don't know, people "know" gods are real in our world and it don't change a thing.

                          In India you have many Gurus that can sense the Omens of the gods, and people going to small villages where a baby was born with 4 arms or 4 legs (can't remember, I think it was 4 legs).
                          In Brazil people say they are children of Orishas (they are not biological children, they are chosen of, but you got the idea), and you many people agree that Orishas are real, even being Christians themselves (while other christians are killing candomblé and umbanda followers, and destroying their shrines and temples). Believe me, but in the north of Brazil you can find people that consider a honor to be a kid of Boto (long story short, they are fresh water dolphins that could turn into handsome man, get women pregnant and disappear in the river).

                          Gods are real in our world and people don't gossip about them. People blaming to be child of a god will be respected (or not) and maybe even famous, but nobody will ask: "have you seen you dad around? I need to ask for a favor of him". Gods are gods, not celebrities, they are beyond it all and can punish you for talking bad of them. Even more if their power is evident to everyone.

                          If you can handle a relic of divine power, you probably can ask for some help of a god and its probably not a good idea to question your power just for gossips or a tabloid.


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                          • #28
                            Look even if the Gods are known to exist, you can still play someone with Occult and Culture 0. It's not that they would necessarily doubt that the Gods exist, much like I wouldn't say that the Czech Republic doesn't exist. But much like I couldn't tell you who is currently in charge of the Czech Republic without Googling, it's possible in the World to know that Gods are a Thing, but also think that the Three Kings of the Theoi are Zoo, Hayden, and Broseidon King of the Brocean.

                            Knowing a category exists doesn't mean that literally everyone knows everything about it, and it doesn't prevent some beings within from being private or secretive. There's still secret circles, obscure information, and little rituals that are kept within an organization in our world.

                            That's the main thrust I was going with when talking about knowing that baking is a thing yet still not knowing Grandma's secret brownie recipe. You can know that the divine and divination exist (the baking in this metaphor) and still not know every single ritual (Grandma's recipe) because it turns out that the one small club that still practices Tyromancy consists of like three mysterious figures who divine the future while making cheese. And then sell their cheese at a farmer's market.


                            Disclaimer: In favor of fun and enjoyment, but may speak up to warn you that you're gonna step on a metaphorical land mine

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Kyman201 View Post
                              Knowing a category exists doesn't mean that literally everyone knows everything about it, and it doesn't prevent some beings within from being private or secretive. There's still secret circles, obscure information, and little rituals that are kept within an organization in our world.

                              Okay. I get it. For instance; In our world we still have flat-Earthers, regardless of the wealth of information to the contrary.
                              Last edited by MythAdvocate; 11-19-2020, 02:47 PM.


                              “Humpty had always sat on walls, it was his way.”
                              Jasper Fforde, The Big Over Easy

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MythAdvocate View Post


                                Okay. I get it. For instance; In our world we still have flat-Earthers, regardless of the wealth of information to the contrary.
                                Much as I try not to remember that, alas. :/


                                Disclaimer: In favor of fun and enjoyment, but may speak up to warn you that you're gonna step on a metaphorical land mine

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