Originally posted by Sacerdos
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Esotericism in Scion
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Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.
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So if I've got it right, we need to REPORT cultural appropriation, not intervene ourselves.
It's going to be mighty hard to participate in a discussion where cultural appropriation is happening without saying "hey, look, you're doing cultural appropriation there" but I guess i'll give it a shot...
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I think part of the issue is the piling on; but I could be wrong. I'm also pretty sure that a bigger part of the issue is furthering the thread derailment: as I see it, this thread is about the idea of bringing magical traditions that don't necessarily align with specific Pantheons or drive their powers from the gods into Scion. Posts that do nothing other than call out cultural appropriation (or anything else that's not the above) derails the thread. Including this post, so far.
In an attempt to bring this back on topic, I'd like to try building a list of magical traditions that might not be Pantheon-specific. This is likely to be quite a challenge, as most magical traditions derive from specific cultures and tend to be related to the Pantheons that derive from those same cultures. Nonetheless, here's a tentative first draft:
Hermetic magic: has roots in the Greco-Roman cultures, so it might be related to the Theoi.
Witchcraft: I really don't know much about where this one comes from; I think the modern form of it is a synthesis of several cultures' beliefs?
Kaballah(sp?): This one's actually closely linked to one very specific culture; but it's one that doesn't officially have a Pantheon associated with it. Namely, the Jewish people.
Those are the ones that most readily come to mind. Thoughts?
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Originally posted by Dataweaver View PostHermetic magic: has roots in the Greco-Roman cultures, so it might be related to the Theoi.
Witchcraft: I really don't know much about where this one comes from; I think the modern form of it is a synthesis of several cultures' beliefs?
Kaballah(sp?): This one's actually closely linked to one very specific culture; but it's one that doesn't officially have a Pantheon associated with it. Namely, the Jewish people.
Those are the ones that most readily come to mind. Thoughts?
Kaballah is based on Judeo-Christian interpretation of universe. It would need Judeo-Christian Pantheon to work as Scions. HOWEVER, as Sorcery Tradition, based on the Purviews and Marvels, without Pantheon - should work okay for game purpose.
Witchcraft I do not know as modern interpreation. However Wicca, reflecting cults of many Witches-Goddesses, points to female patrons. So maybe crossPantheon collaboration of Goddesses of Magic and Night?
My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
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The Marvel would be where the power comes from with the Motif offering the ... necessary structure for the power to express itself i guess.
Much in the way of the Feat of Scale needing a Legendary Title to activate.
But yeah, in most scion games the easiest way to feature esoteric pratices would be through motifs.
Completed campaign: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 3 year old daughter and a 2 years old son and now a beautiful new baby.
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As I understand it, a Marvel is the result of channeling the mythological construct known in the game as a Pantheon through a Motif. That is, the Marvel is the result, not the source.
Thus, my question about what would power a Motif that isn't tied to one of three Pantheons; and whether or not you can't have alternate Motifs for a Pantheon..
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Originally posted by Dataweaver View PostAs I understand it, a Marvel is the result of channeling the mythological construct known in the game as a Pantheon through a Motif. That is, the Marvel is the result, not the source.
Thus, my question about what would power a Motif that isn't tied to one of three Pantheons; and whether or not you can't have alternate Motifs for a Pantheon..
Sources for motifs are purviews access through relics and the specialisation of the Artistry, Beast and Passion Purviews.
In this optic, and if ive understood your question correctly, the source of the motif are the purviews which are expression of reality/existence.
So .... everything is the source i guess.
The fuel that powers this would be the divinity pf the scion through the Legend expenditure/imbuing.
Completed campaign: Scion 2nd Edition. Les Légendes Currently playing: Being a dad for a 3 year old daughter and a 2 years old son and now a beautiful new baby.
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Witchcraft is one of those words that can mean anything or nothing, and basically gets plastered on any situation where a woman is using magic.
Remember that terrible Mulan movie where the woman who could change into a falcon was a witch and suffered from ostracization despite witches not being a thing in ancient China? :P
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Originally posted by Dataweaver View PostNext question: can such things have their own Motifs? If so, where does the Motif get its power?
Circular, maybe a bit, but usually the Motif's origin of power is evident in the Motif itself. So hypothetically, students using the Ars Goetia would probably get a motif like "Summon the right demon for the right job"
Where's the power coming from? Presumably from the demons. If another tradition uses mathematical formulae for its rituals, its motif would reflect that.
When does a little habit become a full tradition? That's probably up to the table.
Disclaimer: In favor of fun and enjoyment, but may speak up to warn you that you're gonna step on a metaphorical land mine
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Originally posted by Dataweaver View PostIn an attempt to bring this back on topic, I'd like to try building a list of magical traditions that might not be Pantheon-specific. This is likely to be quite a challenge, as most magical traditions derive from specific cultures and tend to be related to the Pantheons that derive from those same cultures. Nonetheless, here's a tentative first draft:
Hermetic magic: has roots in the Greco-Roman cultures, so it might be related to the Theoi.
Witchcraft: I really don't know much about where this one comes from; I think the modern form of it is a synthesis of several cultures' beliefs?
-g.
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Originally posted by Geoffrey View PostAnother term with a broad range of possible meanings depending on what part of the world you're talking about. If I remember right, Scion avoids the word "witch" deliberately.
-g.
Disclaimer: In favor of fun and enjoyment, but may speak up to warn you that you're gonna step on a metaphorical land mine
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