Using WoD/CoD games to build up Scion’s World setting

[Trippy]

So, I’m of a mind that I might start my first Scion chronicle in 2021.

The group has discussed playing Vampire again, which may still happen, and we have other player proposals too, but Scion might be a change of pace that the group is looking for in a way. In any case, I’m looking to get into it, and so I’m trying to familiarize myself with some of the setting and rules at the moment.

One of the appeals of Scion is that it’s almost like a photoshop negative of the World of Darkness games. That is, it is a modern fantasy world where you play mythological beings interacting with culturally sourced myths and legends - but the tone is much more heroic and positive compared to the bleakly dark WoD games (and CoD, following on). And there is actually a variety of characters you can play, not just Scions. I did take note, especially of the various fey creatures in the game. My thoughts are: what ideas can we mine from WoD/CoD games and reinvent?

Changeling,: The Dreaming especially, seems ripe for plucking (and I never felt it was the right tone for WoD anyway). Could players play changelings in Scion, as it would make an interesting player type. American Gods (by Neal Gaiman) has a couple of characters that are a Leprechaun and a Revenent - so why couldn’t we tap into Changeling/Geist for some integrated lore? Could vampires and werewolves exist? How would magical practitioners interact in this world? Could a Mummy make a great foe from history?

What thoughts?

[Ravian]

There's definitely some stuff to derive from other WoD game lines in Scion, but you've already noticed some tonal differences that can be important to notice.

There are definitely Vampires, Werewolves, Changelings, Ghosts, Mages and all sorts of other beasties in Scion's World, but I think it's important to remember that they are "mythological" denizens, not Kindred, Uratha, and all the rest. And as such, their behavior is much more rooted to those myths than the ones constructed for them in WoD. In particular, their relationship to the Scion World is significantly different than from the World of Darkness.

A lot of this comes from the fact that in WoD, most of these beings are not thought to exist. The Masquerade stands, and those beings hide to preserve it.

Scion's World is a very pertinent example of why many of those beings prefer a Masquerade. A vampire in WoD can generally get by in the ignorance of the public and the ambiguity of vampire legends. If they act a little too weird around someone, most will take an Ocham's razor approach and not jump immediately to vampire. And even if they do get to Vampire, the Kindred is able to laugh aside any garlic or crosses they bring to bear.

This isn't true about Scion. People in the World know Vampires exist. They may not have met one, but their existence is factual because it is mythological. What's more because the myths about them are true, that means the weaknesses likely are as well. Kindred (in the WoD sense) aren't likely a thing in Scion, a vampire in the world is likely to be saddled with all sorts of supernatural weaknesses, and most people they encounter are likely to know at least some of them. If they slip up while hunting a human, they can easily get a face full of crucifix or wild roses, or they can find themselves on the wrong side of running water or a house they haven't been invited into.

In general I don't imagine there to be the same sorts of Supernatural societies in the World as you might see in WoD. Vampires are likely to be solitary beings, coming out of unhallowed graves and lurking on outskirts of society to avoid detection.

Werewolves can vary. Some of them, mythologically, are essentially Vampires, others are a little luckier and might have some sort of social structure to rely on. Norse society had them as a sort of Berserker figure, dangerous, but potentially useful. There's an Irish of a whole tribe of people in Ossery who got cursed to shapeshift into Wolves thanks to St. Patrick, so they have a whole family they can depend on.

Sorcerers are probably the biggest group you'll find in the World, and they're likely to be found in the upcoming sourcebook, saints and monsters.

Changelings are a thing, but in myth they're the faeries that get left behind with humanity, not the human children that are taken by the fair folk.


In general, you can look at WoD for ideas, but I wouldn't recommend it to be the only thing you look at. The myths they derive from are a better place to really figure that out.

[Penelope]

This is a great idea, but Ravian also has some really good points. Also, Saints and Monsters will probably have a lot of info on sorcerers in a mythic context which you can compare and contrast with mages from
M:tAs and M:tAw.

[Trippy]

I may invest in Saints & Monsters when it comes out. What I am looking at, as it stands, is some of the old WoD splat books, with example characters in each of them. Some of those characters were really creative, so I’m wondering how to go about converting them - either as potential PC ideas, or more likely NPCs they can interact with.

[wyrdhamster]

I'm CoD ST of about 15+ years now - and I also just started to run the Scion, as positive counterpart to CoD itself. If you want to add pseudo WoD/CoD monsters to the Scion – as pointed by Ravian - you need to hack Scion 2E general setting and 'put the Masquerade up', I call myself 'Gods in Hiding' hack. It's one of the base 'setting hacks' described in Scion Companion - called there Myth Levels - that I advise to get. For more rules direct interpretation of 'Gods in Hiding' - we have direct topic about it on the forum about rules and it's implications to the Scion setting.

As to the other WoD/CoD splats in Scion setting - simply make them Supernatural Paths. As I'm more CoD versed ST, I will based my idea on CoD line. Each gameline there have 2 Splats variants – X-Splats ( ‘inborn’/Transformation ones ) and Y-Splats ( ‘Philosophical’ ones ). Myself, I would simply made X-Splats as part of general Supernatural Path ( i.e. you Supernatural is not ‘werewolf’ only it’s ‘Full Moon werewolf’ ) - and Society/Pantheon Paths to be Y-Splats. ( So your vampire being member of Carthian Movement is your Society Path). This way translating, for example, Mekhet vampie from Lancea Sanctum, he will in Scion have Supernatural Path: Mekhet vampire and Society Path: Lancea Santcum.

All the other job is simply to point what WoD/CoD splats you want to have in your game and ‘Scionify’ them in advance - we can help with that. 😎

[Dataweaver]

You might also want to consider They Came from Beyond the Grave, which recently finished its Kickstarter and is also a Storypath game. As well, the monsters in that game hew more closely to their Associated myths.

Admittedly, that's only because the pop culture version of these monsters is closer to their mythical roots than their C/WoD versions are, and TCfBtG features the pop culture versions.

[wyrdhamster]

I want to point you on two things about CoD to Scion conversions. One, on mechanical level, you can easily equate Scion Legend with CoD various Supernatural Resistance stats ( SRS, for short ) – Blood Potency, Primal Urge, Gnosis, Azoth, Wyrd, etc. Scion Legend goes from 0 to 12 – and Legend 9-12 are Gods Tier – but SRS are already on scale 0 to 10. And monsters with SRS on 9-10 are already ‘semi-divine’ by CoD settings standards. It just mean that monsters will never become the proper Gods, by the conversion default rules. ( Outside of ST / SG story fiat, of course. )

Second, with Promethean: The Created characters in Scion game we have a bit problem. In PtC most Linages already are mythical created, by the gods – by myths, Galateids are created by Aphrodite, Osirians by Isis, Tammuz are by Inanna of Babylon, and Ulgans are by Ulgan of Siberia. Only Frankensteins were created by mortal. What’s more, Scion 2E already have Created Scions types, like Wonder Women / Diana Price of DC, Created Scion of Zeus. I would like to explore PtC characters also in Scion game – but I do not see reason why would Gods created Promethean instead of simply Created Scion of the same idea… 😏

[Penelope]

Maybe Prometheans are like less powerful Created Scions who have been corrupted by the evil nature of the CoD World?

I’m not sure tbh. Much as I like crossovers, I’m not sure WoD/CoD and Scion can survive in the same universe. Maybe two alternate universes that diverged somewhere back in the misty past of prehistory...?

[wyrdhamster]

Minor sidestep - But I'm creating CoD Hunter Loyalists of Thule Compact as mortal antagonists group for Scion - here it is.

[wyrdhamster]

On Prometheans vs Created Scions - I got good maybe idea from FB group - Prometheans would be titanspawn Created, a parody of their divine version. Hmmm? Aphrodite moking herself her perfect Galatea with Galateids?

[yukikaze]

I don't think it's a bad thing to mine WoD/CofD for ideas. But I'd definitely keep in mind Ravian's point about mythology being a better resource. And I'd also try to avoid trying to shove Scion into a CofD-shaped box; it's definitely not intended to function as a CofD splat, and the scope and tone are far too different. (Not that this has stopped people from trying to do just that...)

[Mateus Luz]

While thematically CoD is closer to Scion, the way it deals with powers (a bunch of lower powers and not a big versatile power hub) makes it closer to Trinity and TCF rules wise. What I mean is, all the splats have a tool box of powers significantly related but not really “purview-ish” (except Mages), so most of them would work as Knacks, that are limited in numbers in Scion.

For example, a Vampire have 3 disciplines, you would need to have at least 3 knacks related to that discipline to deal with it is a “respectful” way otherwise all vampires merge into a single big path/calling, as Scion treat them (at least no more than one kind of vampire per myth). You can break them away by turning disciplines into Purviews, what would make them pretty awesome and a bit out of the idea of how they work in CoD/WoD, and it would fit oven less with the other Splats, let’s say Werewolves, the gifts are related but VERY loosely, more like Knacks than anything.

The Encountered and Cursed (can’t remember if it’s cursed, but the idea is the same) stunts in TCF series work better with the ideas in CoD and WoD because they are specific and you can have many of them. The more satirical aspect of TCF can be avoided with small change sun the way rewrite works and trying to keep the tone during play (including removing the “non sense” of some options).

Using Trinity as base requires some extra effort, but the rules to build most of the powers are already set as Psionic of Quantum power to be copied as wished. It doesnt means you can use, for example, Transmogrify as written to simulate Vicissitude, but you can use it as example to build vicissitude as a different power, same for most other disciplines.

[wyrdhamster]

For recreating only some handfull of NPCs from CoD in Scion game, I would not bother with wriiting new Purviews and Knacks - only re-use Scion ones. Knacks from Scion Callings are more or less cool 'Disciplines-like' powers - for both vampires and werewolves - and Purviews from it works good as mages magic. It simply much more cost effective to re-use those.

Really interesting would be power sources mixing - like witches coven/cabal worshiping Hecate. ( Looking in to Chilling Adventures of Sabrina and Beast The Primordial for ideas... ) Would witches then get Knacks from Hecate Calling and Purviews from her list? Or going a bit outside of it - with Purviews from all open to normal mythical beings?

[wyrdhamster]

Interesting thought I got when listening to new Scion: Dragon previews from pathcast - here they are -

If using Chronicle of Darkness factions in your Scion World, it became interesting (?) when using Dragon, their Heirs - and Mage: The Awakening Orders. Diamond Orders are based on the symbology of mythical dragons - intriguing will be if they meet REAL dragons.