Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Overthrow of Zeus: Specifics?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Overthrow of Zeus: Specifics?

    We know Zeus is fated to be overthrown by one of his children. Typically it is assumed it will be one of his sons. We know about the son, the second child of Metis, was foretold to overthrow him, but Metis was swallowed before that could happen.

    I want to say there were other instances where he was prophesied to be overthrown, but I can't remember. What do you all recall?

    Also, is it just limited to the sons or could it be a daughter?

    Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    I seem to recall something about Heracles “overthtrowing” Zeus when he freed Prometheus. But that's probably not it.


    Comment


    • #3
      So far as I know, that particular prophecy isn’t technically a thing, but similar ones are, giving rise to the misconception.

      A son of Zeus and Metis was fated to overthrow him, but they had a daughter (Athena), so that was fine. Any son of Thetis, no matter who the father was, was destined to be greater than his father, so the gods (particularly Zeus) avoided her and she married Peleus, a mortal who had no objections to having a son who surpassed him (who turned out to be Achilles).

      But these prophecies only focus on Zeus having particular partners. There’s none only about Zeus himself. That said, he does still get entangled in that kind of prophecy quite a lot, so if you want to make one up with a scion of Zeus’ mother, perhaps one that encompasses any gender of child if needed, that’s perfectly within tradition.
      Last edited by a2a3a2a3; 01-10-2021, 06:53 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        According to Theoi.com, Zeus went as far as swallowing Metis whole to stop her from giving birth to someone who would overthrow him (like father like son, I guess) and that's how Athena came to be in his body before coming out of his head.
        https://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanisMetis.html
        Always make sure to check up on any prophecies that might be hanging over your head before having sex, kids. Safety first!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by PXGentleman View Post
          According to Theoi.com, Zeus went as far as swallowing Metis whole to stop her from giving birth to someone who would overthrow him (like father like son, I guess) and that's how Athena came to be in his body before coming out of his head.
          https://www.theoi.com/Titan/TitanisMetis.html
          Always make sure to check up on any prophecies that might be hanging over your head before having sex, kids. Safety first!
          "Home: The belly of Zeus"
          Cant argue with that logic, lol.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by a2a3a2a3 View Post
            So far as I know, that particular prophecy isn’t technically a thing, but similar ones are, giving rise to the misconception.

            A son of Zeus and Metis was fated to overthrow him, but they had a daughter (Athena), so that was fine. Any son of Thetis, no matter who the father was, was destined to be greater than his father, so the gods (particularly Zeus) avoided her and she married Peleus, a mortal who had no objections to having a son who surpassed him (who turned out to be Achilles).

            But these prophecies only focus on Zeus having particular partners. There’s none only about Zeus himself. That said, he does still get entangled in that kind of prophecy quite a lot, so if you want to make one up with a scion of Zeus’ mother, perhaps one that encompasses any gender of child if needed, that’s perfectly within tradition.
            True. That is a good point.

            Comment


            • #7
              Going back to my point: I can't find it now; but I know that the first time I ever heard the prophesy of Zeus being overthrown was in a telling of Heracles freeing Prometheus from his punishment, and Prometheus mentioning the prophecy to Heracles, indicating that Heracles was the prophecied one — but that “overthrow” ended up being more figurative than literal.


              Comment


              • #8
                Interesting.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Like I said, that's what I remember; but I have no clue where I read it. I was a teenager at the time, back in the late 80s.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A belief in the existence of a prophecy that one of Zeus' sons would kill him must have been at least reasonably widespread, since 11 years ago, fanfic author Thrythlind started an incomplete Oh, My Goddess/Ranma/Full Metal Panic/other x-over titled 'Divine Blood' which involved that prophecy. Zeus had literal plot armor throughout the story since he could only be killed by his own son. There was actually some pretty interesting world building in that fic.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That's quite a mash up.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I’m aware of one version where it is destined that Dionysus would eventually overthrow Zeus, given their association with conquest and the mystery birth and what not, but that might be a story specific to a few of Dionysus’ own cults and some Orphic cults.

                        I’ve also heard a telling of the story of Heracles freeing Prometheus that said the reason Zeus allowed it is Prometheus warned Zeus that he had knowledge of how Zeus might be overthrown and wanting to know what the titan of foresight did, Zeus allowed his release. Once free Prometheus warned him that Thetis was deathbed to birth a son who would be greater then his father. So Zeus quickly arranged her wedding to Peleus and avoided yet another potential usurpation.

                        The son of Peleus and Thetis was Achilles by the way.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                          Going back to my point: I can't find it now; but I know that the first time I ever heard the prophesy of Zeus being overthrown was in a telling of Heracles freeing Prometheus from his punishment, and Prometheus mentioning the prophecy to Heracles, indicating that Heracles was the prophecied one — but that “overthrow” ended up being more figurative than literal.
                          As Gryffon15 pointed out, in some tellings of the myth, Prometheus was the one in greek myth who knew the secret about Thetis being fated to birth a child greater than the father and the Heracles' quest to free the titan from his plight was at least in part barter of sorts between him and the lord of Olympus for the knowledge of how to break the cycle that felled Ouranos and Cronos both before Zeus.

                          It's not so much that there's a specific prophecy about Zeus's overthrow so much as, being the king of the gods, he must constantly watch out for threats to his authority and/or throne. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.
                          Last edited by Baaldam; 01-25-2021, 09:01 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As mentioned, Zeus personally doesn't have a prophecy about one of his kids overthrowing him. He's mostly concerned about people who are supposed to have children greater than their father.

                            That said, he's probably still concerned about such things because well......Zeus overthrew his father who overthrew his father.

                            It's a bit like heart disease in that it's something his family has history with, he's not guaranteed to have it happen to him but he needs to keep an eye on the situation. Only with more divine usurpation.


                            Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

                            It's not so much that there's a specific prophecy about Zeus's overthrow so much as, being the king of the gods, he must constantly watch out for threats to his authority and/or throne. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.
                            It's always been my headcanon that Zeus is the most isolated among the Olympians.

                            He's distant from the younger ones as a result of being their father and king and also keeping an eye on them just in case anyone is thinking about overthrowing him.

                            He's distant from the elder Olympians because, even though they fought side by side to overthrow Kronos there's a part of them that looks at him and just goes "Why were you the one that mother saved? Why not me?" along with the fact that they have the shared trauma/history of growing up together in Kronos's stomach, which is something Zeus doesn't.



                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nervaqus987 View Post
                              As mentioned, Zeus personally doesn't have a prophecy about one of his kids overthrowing him. He's mostly concerned about people who are supposed to have children greater than their father.

                              That said, he's probably still concerned about such things because well......Zeus overthrew his father who overthrew his father.

                              It's a bit like heart disease in that it's something his family has history with, he's not guaranteed to have it happen to him but he needs to keep an eye on the situation. Only with more divine usurpation.




                              It's always been my headcanon that Zeus is the most isolated among the Olympians.

                              He's distant from the younger ones as a result of being their father and king and also keeping an eye on them just in case anyone is thinking about overthrowing him.

                              He's distant from the elder Olympians because, even though they fought side by side to overthrow Kronos there's a part of them that looks at him and just goes "Why were you the one that mother saved? Why not me?" along with the fact that they have the shared trauma/history of growing up together in Kronos's stomach, which is something Zeus doesn't.
                              Good points all around.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X