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  • omenseer
    started a topic The Overthrow of Zeus: Specifics?

    The Overthrow of Zeus: Specifics?

    We know Zeus is fated to be overthrown by one of his children. Typically it is assumed it will be one of his sons. We know about the son, the second child of Metis, was foretold to overthrow him, but Metis was swallowed before that could happen.

    I want to say there were other instances where he was prophesied to be overthrown, but I can't remember. What do you all recall?

    Also, is it just limited to the sons or could it be a daughter?

    Thanks in advance.

  • omenseer
    replied
    Originally posted by Grevnor View Post
    I have a potential overthrow scenario in mind that I will probably incorporate into a Scion campaign if I ever get to run one again. Granted, this is merely speculation based on the respective gods' personalities, and nothing based in actual myth. So here goes:
    Aphrodite and Ares have long been lovers, and they even have 6 kids together. Meanwhile, her marriage to Hephaestus is an unhappy one for all parties involved. Finally, Hephaestus had enough of this nonsense, and his own bad treatment, and seeks to get a divorce, which is complicated because Hera. So he looks for allies, and finds one, surprisingly, in Athena. The two are much better suited for each other, and then there was the whole issue with Athena's mother. So they decide to overthrow Zeus and Hera, and actually get Aphrodite and Ares in on it, too, along with Poseidon and a few of the younger gods. If successful, they imprison Zeus and Hera in Tartarus, force-feed Zeus some vile concoction to make him throw up Metis, who is now pregnant with the propheciced new king. Hephaestus and Aphrodite get their long-awaited divorce, Aphrodite finally makes her relationship with Ares official, Hephaestus and Athena get married, and the four of them, along with Poseidon, form a council awaiting the birth of their new king.
    Interesting, and once that's done the intrigue and politicing begins.

    Leave a comment:


  • Grevnor
    replied
    I have a potential overthrow scenario in mind that I will probably incorporate into a Scion campaign if I ever get to run one again. Granted, this is merely speculation based on the respective gods' personalities, and nothing based in actual myth. So here goes:
    Aphrodite and Ares have long been lovers, and they even have 6 kids together. Meanwhile, her marriage to Hephaestus is an unhappy one for all parties involved. Finally, Hephaestus had enough of this nonsense, and his own bad treatment, and seeks to get a divorce, which is complicated because Hera. So he looks for allies, and finds one, surprisingly, in Athena. The two are much better suited for each other, and then there was the whole issue with Athena's mother. So they decide to overthrow Zeus and Hera, and actually get Aphrodite and Ares in on it, too, along with Poseidon and a few of the younger gods. If successful, they imprison Zeus and Hera in Tartarus, force-feed Zeus some vile concoction to make him throw up Metis, who is now pregnant with the propheciced new king. Hephaestus and Aphrodite get their long-awaited divorce, Aphrodite finally makes her relationship with Ares official, Hephaestus and Athena get married, and the four of them, along with Poseidon, form a council awaiting the birth of their new king.
    Last edited by Grevnor; 04-15-2021, 02:39 AM.

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  • Omegaphallic
    replied
    No prophecy of Zeus being over thrown, partly because Greek Myth doesn't actually express how the Greek viewed their Gods and relationship to the Gods. So there was no belief that Zeus would be overthrown.

    BUT if one of the Zeus' children did over throw him, it would be one of the ones with the biggest beef and yet greatest power. I would say Hephaestus because he has the biggest beef, getting thrown off a mountain and maimed is a good reason to be mad, and he is the only God who has the power to bind other Olympians and powerful Titans, except Zeus himself. Plus he is the only God to crack open Zeus skull in mythology. Some refer to Hephaestus as both Binder and Liberator.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hera Stan Account
    replied
    Originally posted by omenseer View Post
    We know Zeus is fated to be overthrown by one of his children. Typically it is assumed it will be one of his sons. We know about the son, the second child of Metis, was foretold to overthrow him, but Metis was swallowed before that could happen.

    I want to say there were other instances where he was prophesied to be overthrown, but I can't remember. What do you all recall?

    Also, is it just limited to the sons or could it be a daughter?

    Thanks in advance.
    I read there is one version of the tale where Metis was destined two have a daughter as strong as her power and afterwards a son stronger than him (iirc). I play around it by having Athene be both.

    To be elaborate, modern society makes Athene realize he's a trans male. This change of self-perception accidentally fulfills the prophecy. Afterwards we basically get God of War 3 (Zeus grows paranoid, tries to get rid of him, cue Olympomachia)

    I also tied it to irl events (since i did this recently) and made Athena transition in '14 (the so called transgender tipping point year) and had the Olympomachia start in 2020 (explaining the year events)
    Last edited by Hera Stan Account; 04-10-2021, 01:59 PM.

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  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Nervaqus987 View Post
    As mentioned, Zeus personally doesn't have a prophecy about one of his kids overthrowing him. He's mostly concerned about people who are supposed to have children greater than their father.

    That said, he's probably still concerned about such things because well......Zeus overthrew his father who overthrew his father.

    It's a bit like heart disease in that it's something his family has history with, he's not guaranteed to have it happen to him but he needs to keep an eye on the situation. Only with more divine usurpation.




    It's always been my headcanon that Zeus is the most isolated among the Olympians.

    He's distant from the younger ones as a result of being their father and king and also keeping an eye on them just in case anyone is thinking about overthrowing him.

    He's distant from the elder Olympians because, even though they fought side by side to overthrow Kronos there's a part of them that looks at him and just goes "Why were you the one that mother saved? Why not me?" along with the fact that they have the shared trauma/history of growing up together in Kronos's stomach, which is something Zeus doesn't.

    Not to mention some of the brothers, sisters and childer have ideas of their own at times, as shown by the almost successful attempt by Athena, Hera & Poseidon to depose Zeus mentioned in the Illiad. Among other things - Aphrodite, unintentional child of Ouranos or daughter of Zeus with an obscure consort, which version is true and what function might the false tale serve for? The matter of Eros' true identity is twice as sketchy, might be said.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 01-27-2021, 05:31 AM.

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  • omenseer
    replied
    Originally posted by Nervaqus987 View Post
    As mentioned, Zeus personally doesn't have a prophecy about one of his kids overthrowing him. He's mostly concerned about people who are supposed to have children greater than their father.

    That said, he's probably still concerned about such things because well......Zeus overthrew his father who overthrew his father.

    It's a bit like heart disease in that it's something his family has history with, he's not guaranteed to have it happen to him but he needs to keep an eye on the situation. Only with more divine usurpation.




    It's always been my headcanon that Zeus is the most isolated among the Olympians.

    He's distant from the younger ones as a result of being their father and king and also keeping an eye on them just in case anyone is thinking about overthrowing him.

    He's distant from the elder Olympians because, even though they fought side by side to overthrow Kronos there's a part of them that looks at him and just goes "Why were you the one that mother saved? Why not me?" along with the fact that they have the shared trauma/history of growing up together in Kronos's stomach, which is something Zeus doesn't.
    Good points all around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nervaqus987
    replied
    As mentioned, Zeus personally doesn't have a prophecy about one of his kids overthrowing him. He's mostly concerned about people who are supposed to have children greater than their father.

    That said, he's probably still concerned about such things because well......Zeus overthrew his father who overthrew his father.

    It's a bit like heart disease in that it's something his family has history with, he's not guaranteed to have it happen to him but he needs to keep an eye on the situation. Only with more divine usurpation.


    Originally posted by Baaldam View Post

    It's not so much that there's a specific prophecy about Zeus's overthrow so much as, being the king of the gods, he must constantly watch out for threats to his authority and/or throne. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.
    It's always been my headcanon that Zeus is the most isolated among the Olympians.

    He's distant from the younger ones as a result of being their father and king and also keeping an eye on them just in case anyone is thinking about overthrowing him.

    He's distant from the elder Olympians because, even though they fought side by side to overthrow Kronos there's a part of them that looks at him and just goes "Why were you the one that mother saved? Why not me?" along with the fact that they have the shared trauma/history of growing up together in Kronos's stomach, which is something Zeus doesn't.

    Leave a comment:


  • Baaldam
    replied
    Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
    Going back to my point: I can't find it now; but I know that the first time I ever heard the prophesy of Zeus being overthrown was in a telling of Heracles freeing Prometheus from his punishment, and Prometheus mentioning the prophecy to Heracles, indicating that Heracles was the prophecied one — but that “overthrow” ended up being more figurative than literal.
    As Gryffon15 pointed out, in some tellings of the myth, Prometheus was the one in greek myth who knew the secret about Thetis being fated to birth a child greater than the father and the Heracles' quest to free the titan from his plight was at least in part barter of sorts between him and the lord of Olympus for the knowledge of how to break the cycle that felled Ouranos and Cronos both before Zeus.

    It's not so much that there's a specific prophecy about Zeus's overthrow so much as, being the king of the gods, he must constantly watch out for threats to his authority and/or throne. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.
    Last edited by Baaldam; 01-25-2021, 09:01 PM.

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  • Gryffon15
    replied
    I’m aware of one version where it is destined that Dionysus would eventually overthrow Zeus, given their association with conquest and the mystery birth and what not, but that might be a story specific to a few of Dionysus’ own cults and some Orphic cults.

    I’ve also heard a telling of the story of Heracles freeing Prometheus that said the reason Zeus allowed it is Prometheus warned Zeus that he had knowledge of how Zeus might be overthrown and wanting to know what the titan of foresight did, Zeus allowed his release. Once free Prometheus warned him that Thetis was deathbed to birth a son who would be greater then his father. So Zeus quickly arranged her wedding to Peleus and avoided yet another potential usurpation.

    The son of Peleus and Thetis was Achilles by the way.

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  • omenseer
    replied
    That's quite a mash up.

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  • Shepherdboi
    replied
    A belief in the existence of a prophecy that one of Zeus' sons would kill him must have been at least reasonably widespread, since 11 years ago, fanfic author Thrythlind started an incomplete Oh, My Goddess/Ranma/Full Metal Panic/other x-over titled 'Divine Blood' which involved that prophecy. Zeus had literal plot armor throughout the story since he could only be killed by his own son. There was actually some pretty interesting world building in that fic.

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  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Like I said, that's what I remember; but I have no clue where I read it. I was a teenager at the time, back in the late 80s.

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  • omenseer
    replied
    Interesting.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dataweaver
    replied
    Going back to my point: I can't find it now; but I know that the first time I ever heard the prophesy of Zeus being overthrown was in a telling of Heracles freeing Prometheus from his punishment, and Prometheus mentioning the prophecy to Heracles, indicating that Heracles was the prophecied one — but that “overthrow” ended up being more figurative than literal.

    Leave a comment:

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