[2E] Non-combatants in Scion

[wyrdhamster]

My Origin Tier players are complaining their non-combatant characters got easily beaten by enemies - Monsters and Professionals Archetypes. On band of 3 Origin-to-Heroes, only one character is combat specific ( mercenary chosen by Anubis ). On other hand, other characters are strictly academics Professor ( Scion of Odin, Sage Calling ) and modern Thief ( Scion of Hermes, Sage Trickster ). Professor is just easily killed on the one hit by enemies and do not know what to do in combats, beside running for his life. IF he survives first hit. I look for some ideas how to engage non-combatant players more.

I want to mark that players to this date did not use any armors on them - maybe last events point them to use those. ( Professor player is pointing on contrast 'Where did you seen history professors in combat armors?' )

[Florin]

How are your PCs being incapacitated with one hit? At most, assuming the enemy crits, they'll take 2 injury conditions, leaving them at least a Maimed condition open. Also, something like a heavy leather jacket counts as a point of soft or hard armor. They don't need to be running around in tactical armor to get some benefits of armor. They also have the option to use Full Defense while the scion of Anubis takes out the baddies.

[andrewm9]

How many enemies are your people facing? Do they have opportunities to shine out of combat? Also Florin is correct, they always have at least 3 health levels and a modest investment in Stamina (3) they receive another health level. presumably the don’t all have resilience stats of 2 so they should at least have a modest defense.

[Magicjohnny]

Also yeah, armor doesn’t have to be full blown combat armor, even a leather jacket can provide at least soft armor, or sport pads, or even a long coat can provide soft armor

[Mateus Luz]

Well, if you have a group of people that don't like to fight why do you put them to fight? I mean, it's not D&D, the characters can face other kinds of challenges that are not fighting or facing traps.

You can use some investigation, maybe some social challenges, some action scenes based on chases and "dance offs" (it can be a real dance off to define who is the winner, or it can be just a distraction if you prefer), Scion have the tools for that and its part of many myths. Even Thor didn't solve everything by punching giants, sometimes he hammered them, but other times he drank an ocean or lifted a cat.

My suggestion is to pick things like Indiana Jones, he had many action scenes revolving around running from bad guys, boulders and snakes, and once in a while he fought them, but not ALL the time. Other option is to have heists, like "La Casa de Papel", you have people with guns and yet you don't have that many gun fights, people doing stuff and trying to convince bad people to do the right thing not by putting them on the wrong side of a gun, but by bringing some moral discussions and discovering the motivations behind the actions.

[wyrdhamster]

How are your PCs being incapacitated with one hit?

Professor vs Manticore that he summoned by the activating stones and portal directly to Manticore Lair. ( Professor's curosity. )

Professor – Static Defense 2, Defense roll 4

Manticore ( Origin to Hero Tier ) – Beside Flight, everything from book Origin

Archetype: Monster
Quality: Armor Piercing (Jaws, Sting ), Flight, Natural Weapon ( Claws, Jaws, Sting ), Unnatural Hunger ( Human Flesh ), Toxic ( Sting )
Flairs: Seeing Red, Here I Come ( Flight Charge )
Drive: To eat human flesh.
Weakness: ???
Primary Pool (11): Flight, Close Combat
Secondary Pool (9): Sting Shooting, Jaws Grappling
Desperation Pool: 5
Speed: 20
Health: 6
Defense: 4
Initiative: 9
Attacks:
Claws - Enhancement 2, Natural, Range: Close
Jaws - Enhancement 2, Natural, Piercing, Grapple, Range: Close
Poison Sting - Enhancement 1, Natural, Piercing, Toxic, Range: Short

Manticore attacks with Claws. Manticore rolls 11d10>8! = 3 Successes + 2 Enhancement = 5 Succs

Professor rolls Defence Stunt 8d10>8! = 2 Succs

5 - 2 = 3 Succs of Injury from Manticore.

Professor had previously Injured from previous fight to the death he half healed, so 3 levels below – he is now Taken Out. Manticore is slowly eating his (almost) dead flesh.

[wyrdhamster]

How many enemies are your people facing?

One lone Monster. I know, it’s Monster – but it’s only one enemy, nothing more.

Also Florin is correct, they always have at least 3 health levels and a modest investment in Stamina (3) they receive another health level. presumably the don’t all have resilience stats of 2 so they should at least have a modest defense.

Professor has Stamina 3, so he has 4 Health Levels, counted in the above example.

Do they have opportunities to shine out of combat?

Professor is translating everything and decipher myths all along, spending half the session talking. So rather yeah, he is needed outside of combat.

[Florin]

In your example, the professor should take 1 injury condition from the manticore's attack since you don't have a tag to reduce the critical stunt down to a cost of 3. He does not take 3 injury conditions. Was he already at Maimed? If so, yeah, getting hit is going to take you out, and why were you fighting a manticore when you were already Maimed?. If he was Injured, he's now Maimed.

[wyrdhamster]

Wait, what - irrelevant to number of successes, character get only 1 Injury per attack? Manticore has over 3 successes over Professor.

I assumed that each success over is next 1 Injury - so 1 successes is 1 Injury, 2 successes then 2 Injuries, 3 successes then 3 Injuries extra...

[Mateus Luz]

Wait, what - irrelevant to number of successes, character get only 1 Injury per attack? Manticore has over 3 successes over Professor.

I assumed that each success over is next 1 Injury - so 1 successes over 1 Injury, 2 successes then 2 Injuries, 3 successes then 3 Injuries extra.

NO!!!!

Cause Injury Stunt causes 1 single injury and if you get the Critical stunt you cause a second injury. Its a very pulp system, a shot and a punch cause basically the same damage to the character.

[Florin]

Wait, what - irrelevant to number of successes, character get only 1 Injury per attack? Manticore has over 3 successes over Professor.

I assumed that each success over is next 1 Injury - so 1 successes is 1 Injury, 2 successes then 2 Injuries, 3 successes then 3 Injuries extra...

Rolling a successful attack vs. the target's Defense gives you threshold successes to spend. In your example, that's 3 successes. The Inflict Injury stunt costs the amount of soft armor the target has. In this case, it sounds like the professor had no soft armor. So, it will cost zero successes to Inflict Injury. That inflicts 1 injury condition on the professor. The Critical Hit stunt is the only other stunt which can inflict a second injury condition, but it costs 4 successes, which the manticore does not have. The manticore could also grapple, push, knockdown, etc. the professor by buying the appropriate stunt(s) with its 3 successes.

Now, once Scale gets involved, then things get messier, but the manticore does not have any scale advantages over the PCs.

[wyrdhamster]

Okay, Florin and Mateus Luz - I seen where I made mistake and shared correct interpretation with my players. Thanks for clearing my error. Still, topic can easily be for pointing other uses for non-combatants in combat scenes to be used.

And forgiveness puss for my mistakes...

[Maitrecorbo]

Followers and Creatures are the most straight-forward options for a non-combatant to have.
Even without those, the non-combattant can attack (at safe-distance would be preferable) and generate momentum to help the others. A character can also make an action to give another pc bonus enhancement on a teamwork action or doing something to generate a complication to the antagonist action.

[andrewm9]

Sounds good to me then, you just encountered a rules misunderstanding. I thnk your players may be a little happier next time then. In the game I play in, I am surrounded by non combat characters, but much of the hard work is done by the brains in the group.

[Kyman201]

I want to mark that players to this date did not use any armors on them - maybe last events point them to use those. ( Professor player is pointing on contrast 'Where did you seen history professors in combat armors?' )

Snarky answer: After the second time that the professor got jumped and injured?