Doppelganger Limitations

[Aristarkos]

Keep in mind the infinite clones thing could get defeated by a single scion with the warrior knacks Army of One and They're Everywhere (of i remember the names right)

You are quite right. What I would do for future games is probably just remove the need for a skill roll and have the player spend 1 Momentum for it instead. That way they can keep creating clones until Momentum runs out.

[nalak42]

So looked it over and I don't think its appropriate for Hero tier to be able to do mass cloning and such. The wording says that each use of the knack can create a clone. Consequently, even if the ruling were that clones could make clones we're talking linear clone growth unless your SG rules that creating a new clone doesn't eliminate the old ones. Which doesn't feel right to me, one because at any power tier the ability to create nigh on infinite duplicates of yourself is a game breaker power, and two the numbers just don't seem right for Hero tier.

Now a fun fact I did see in my reading. One can interpret the RAW for the ability as allowing the double to fight. It doesn't say your double can't be in a fight, just that it turns to dust if attacked. There is some evidence for this being against RAI as it also says that the double is to be sent off to handle a social or investigative task. That said I think many SGs are cool with giving you enough leeway to have your double participate in combat, particularly for things like distractions, decoys, and feints and the like.

[Aristarkos]

So looked it over and I don't think its appropriate for Hero tier to be able to do mass cloning and such. The wording says that each use of the knack can create a clone. Consequently, even if the ruling were that clones could make clones we're talking linear clone growth unless your SG rules that creating a new clone doesn't eliminate the old ones. Which doesn't feel right to me, one because at any power tier the ability to create nigh on infinite duplicates of yourself is a game breaker power, and two the numbers just don't seem right for Hero tier.

Now a fun fact I did see in my reading. One can interpret the RAW for the ability as allowing the double to fight. It doesn't say your double can't be in a fight, just that it turns to dust if attacked. There is some evidence for this being against RAI as it also says that the double is to be sent off to handle a social or investigative task. That said I think many SGs are cool with giving you enough leeway to have your double participate in combat, particularly for things like distractions, decoys, and feints and the like.

Yes, I see nothing in the description saying that the Doppelganger cannot participate in an attack, just that they crumble to dust if attacked. The player in question that I mentioned had his clone support him not just with feints and distractions but also by making ranged attacks at a distance.

[TheStray7]

In a lot of superhero media, summoning multiple clones to dogpile a group of bad guys is pretty standard fare -- but that's also usually the only trick they have. Naruto is one of the few superhero media types who has other powers in addition to his clone-creation trick.

Honestly, I'd be fine with allowing multiple duplicates...as long as they were built using the Followers rules. Followers already covers having a group of lackeys at your beck and call fairly well while not creating an insane nightmare for combat adjudication.

[Hark]

So, how do you think a Doppelganger performs in a fight against a trivial opponent on combat? A large group of trivial opponents?

Basically, do doppelgangers follow the rule that it sucks to be trivial and basically ignore the usual restrictions on the ability when used against trivial opponents?

[TheStray7]

So, how do you think a Doppelganger performs in a fight against a trivial opponent on combat? A large group of trivial opponents?

Basically, do doppelgangers follow the rule that it sucks to be trivial and basically ignore the usual restrictions on the ability when used against trivial opponents?

I think that if this came up in my games, I'd treat using the Doppelganger as a Follower with an effective dot rating equal to the character's Trickster Calling dots. That means that anything you could do with a Follower in a fight, you could do with your Doppelganger -- meaning that directing them to fight while also doing actions yourself requires a mixed action on your part. The higher your Trickster Calling, the more Tags you can assign to your Doppelganger (or 'gangers plural) with the limitation that a) you can only give the Doppelganger Knacks you know and b) the doppelganger only have the Taken Out condition instead of the Bruised and Maimed Condition Followers usually have. If you give them abilities that work better against trivial opponents, then they still work better against trivial opponent.

[Thiagocord]

The way i found to balance this is the making the knacks active limit global, since a immortal knack costs 2 spaces , it limit pretty much how much clones you can make with doppel, since the knacks dont make clear every clone has his own knack active limit, it works out, a 4 dots trickster can only summon 2 doppels.