Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Good source on Saxon Pantheon?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Good source on Saxon Pantheon?

    Hey guys, hope you're all doing well.
    So I've been a fan of Scion 2E for a while, and I'm eagerly awaiting the Once and Future supplement because then I can fulfill my dream of playing a Scion game set in the Arthurian mythos version of Dark Ages Britain.
    In aid of this, I've started writing an overview of the Saxon version of the Aesir, including the Mantles of what gods still exist and a few of the gods that don't translate (like Eostre and Saexnaet).
    The one main issue of this is that my particular line of focus is on Welsh/Arthurian Mythology, so I'm going into this experience completely blind, which is an issue because from what I can gather we know very little about Saxon paganism and... well, put it this way, it's the West German version of Norse Mythology, the chances of me accidentally citing a Nazi are very high.
    So, I was hoping people more knowledgeable about the topic than me could point me towards some sources on the topic? Preferably books or academic journals, being interested in Celtic Mythology has taught me to be somewhat suspicious of web sources, even the really good ones. Thanks for whatever help you can offer me!
    Last edited by HaddockNorseman; 06-30-2021, 04:32 AM.

  • #2
    Wish I could help. This sounds fascinating.

    Comment


    • #3
      I've already put "European Paganism: The Realities of Cult from Antiquity to the Middle Ages" on the list at Amazon.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Astromancer
        Survive the Jive is the channel, he cites original source documents (so you can check his work).
        Awesome, thanks a bunch, I'll check him out now.

        Comment


        • #5
          The other title you want is "Elves in Anglo-Saxon England" or something like that. I had a copy of this book, but a bitter nasty Gatekeeper got into the apartment I was sharing and permanently "borrowed" the book. As her family is rich and the theft took place in Southeastern North Carolina, the police couldn't have cared less.

          As the distinction between Gods and Elves is far weaker in Anglo-Saxon mythology than in Norse, you want to read the book.
          Last edited by Astromancer; 06-30-2021, 12:37 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Astromancer View Post
            The other title you want is "Elves in Anglo-Saxon England" or something like that. I had a copy of this book, but a bitter nasty Gatekeeper got into the apartment I was sharing and permanently "borrowed" the book. As her family is rich and the theft took place in Southeastern North Carolina, the police couldn't have cared less.

            As the distinction between Gods and Elves is far weaker in Anglo-Saxon mythology than in Norse, you want to read the book.
            Your ex stole your book on elves in Anglo-Saxon England?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Penelope View Post

              Your ex stole your book on elves in Anglo-Saxon England?
              She wasn't my ex. I mainly sleep with guys. Nah, she just bamboozled my roommate (strictly Platonic) got in and stole some stuff. She was never a friend or lover, just a creep I knew.

              But the book in question is part of a series of monographs on Anglo-Saxon culture and society. And it even delt with Gender aspects of the gods and elves.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Astromancer View Post
                The other title you want is "Elves in Anglo-Saxon England" or something like that.
                Was it Elves in Anglo-Saxon England: Matters of Belief, Health, Gender and Identity by Alaric Hall? Because it's available on Amazon.



                What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post

                  Was it Elves in Anglo-Saxon England: Matters of Belief, Health, Gender and Identity by Alaric Hall? Because it's available on Amazon.
                  Yes. It's really good.

                  Fun fact, in the Ancient Norse/Anglo-Saxon/West Germanic world this book says that "Whitest" generally meant effeminate. Every male God, Elf, or paranormal creature in Old Nordic texts that is described as WHITE, WHITER, or WHITEST, is shown to be effeminate. The Nordic otherworld was often gender reversed. Even Odin wore drag to cast powerful magics. Given That Heimdal guards the Bifrost/rainbow bridge i.e. the road to heaven, and is called "The WHITEST God," suggests a powerful otherworld shaman, And a shaman (literal meaning Man/Woman) probably in drag. They never handled Heimdal that way in Marvel Comics.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I remember, about 20 years ago, reading something that included the theory that Thor, Tyr, and (I think) Baldar may have initially been different aspects/facets of Odin rather than separate gods in their own right. I think it also included the idea that, given certain aspects of gender/sexuality in Norse magic and especially Seidr craft, that Freyr and Freya may have been the same (genderfluid? trans? I'm not really sure which descriptor might apply here) individual. I can't recall is their was any basis there was behind it, but I always thought it was an interesting idea.

                    I remember the idea that early Nordic (and possibly Germanic; I can't recall dates atm) Christianity would often be disparaged with the term "The White Christ", which wasn't a commentary of Jesus's race, but rather him being pacifistic and non-violent, especially when compared with "The Red Thor". The idea of "white" meaning "effeminate" helps put that in even more clear context.

                    Which reminds me of that rather unfortunate Camp from Werewolf: The Apocalypse's first edition Get of Fenris, The Swords of Heimdall. They were a bunch of neo-N-zis, apparently deriving their name from the idea that Heimdall was described as "the whitest of the Aesir". In light of the idea that white = effeminate, this suddenly makes the whole thing into a bit of a farce. I will now never be able to picture them as anything other than the WoD version of Aryan Thrust, the gay neo-N-zi organization from Frank Miller's 1980s cyberpunk story Give Me Liberty. A bunch of werewolves who dress like a cross between the leather-biker from the Village People and German National Socialist fetishists.

                    That said, I think Scion would be the perfect place for a new Swords of Heimdall, an all LGBT+ Aesir cult who are militantly proud of their LGBT+ status.


                    What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                    Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      No One of Consequence I'm stealing the Swords of Heimdall idea and share it one Facebook group and Discord server! ❤️🌈❤️
                      Last edited by wyrdhamster; 07-04-2021, 01:17 AM.


                      My stuff for Realms of Pugmire, Scion 2E, CoD Contagion, Dark Eras, VtR 2E, WtF 2E, MtAw 2E, MtC 2E & BtP
                      LGBT+ through Ages
                      LGBT+ in CoD games

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This might be a fun volume for your research. It isn't specific to the Saxons but is a who's who of the gods worshipped in ancient Britain, based on primary sources: https://www.amazon.com/Isles-Many-Go...t-video&sr=1-1

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm still hoping that the proposed Welsh/Arthurian book will include something about the Saxon variants of the Aesir, perhaps akin to how the Loa are to the Orisha.


                          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Survive the Jive is attached to some unsavoury people and has on more than one occasion said some very inappropriate things regarding Jews. His works were published by the National Vanguard and he's been on Red Ice Radio. He doesn't seem to think he's racist and neither do his fanboys, but he's definitely, at the very least, associated with several groups. As such, he is not someone appropriate to recommend here.


                            Author of Cthulhu Armageddon, I was a Teenage Weredeer, Straight Outta Fangton, Lucifer's Star, and the Supervillainy Saga.

                            Forum Terms of Use
                            the Contact Us link.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Then I won't recommend him again. Look for Jackson Crawford a PhD in Norse studies at the University of Colorado. But his focus isn't Anglo-Saxon.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X