Prometheus - Good Titan?

[wyrdhamster]

So Theoi mythology points Prometheus as 'good guy' - defender of humanity, challenging Zeus, showing King of Gods pride and hypocrisy. In the modern world, shouldn't Prometheus be portrayed as a 'good' Titan, Inventor, positive rebel, openly worshiped by followers of Theoi? He is 'humanity person' first, isn't him?

I listened lately on Spotify great retelling of his story.

[glamourweaver]

Scion material has leaned toward the idea that Prometheus was motivated by the untempered spread of his Purview (be it the Fire of Inspiration, or Forge, depending on your interpretation) not humanity in general, and could easily be a Sauron like figure embodying the dark side of industrialization and uncontrolled tech development.

But it’s just as plausible that as “Titan” is a political category, he is labeled as such as a bound enemy of Zeus even though he’s friendly toward humanity.

Another possibility is that he cared about the humans he created - the Men of Gold. Today’s Men of Iron are a pale mockery in his eyes.

[Astromancer]

Another possibility is that he is a noble hearted good guy who lacks a sense of perspective. Prometheus could be a saint, but so focused on his idea of how to do good for others he's truly deadly. Remember the words of the American founding Fathers. "For good men to do evil, that requires religion."

Prometheus can be good and terrifying. Of course, if you read the Greek myths in their older forms, that world's ideas of good and evil tend to freak us out. Both Zeus and Prometheus have ideas of the GOOD that would be rejected today.

[Dataweaver]

Remember the words of the American founding Fathers. "For good men to do evil, that requires religion."

Which Founding Father was that? A quick Google attributes it to a 21st century physicist.

(It's also a stupid saying; but that's a whole other debate.)

[No One of Consequence]

It's also feasible that, after being chained to a rock and having his liver torn out every day by a bird for X number of years/decades/whatever long, he has a very negative - if not hostile - view toward the Theoi pantheon (with the possible exception of Heracles), and so is an enemy of the pantheon even if he has little or no negative opinions about humans.

[Baroness Nerak]

Depending on what interpretation a particular book is taking on Titans, while most simply do not care about humanity that's not a prerequisite. Prometheus evidently does care about humanity. Going with "Archetypal being driven by Purviews" he would be driven by his Purviews, especially Forge aqnd Fire, and humans would be a way to spread that influence and craftwork so he likes humans. If we are going with "Titan is a political distinction" then no reason he can't like humans quite a bit. He probably opposes the Theoi...but you don't really need to be evil to do that. The game is somewhat inconsistant on what a Titan is, which is not a problem but it means you have to decide what interpretation you are using OOC.

[wyrdhamster]

Another possibility is that he cared about the humans he created - the Men of Gold. Today’s Men of Iron are a pale mockery in his eyes.

Who then created Men of Iron? I believed Prometheus build all versions of humans, himself...

[Astromancer]

Which Founding Father was that? A quick Google attributes it to a 21st century physicist.

(It's also a stupid saying; but that's a whole other debate.)

I think it was Franklin. I'll have to go back and look. But the saying was in print by 1790.

[literatzi]

Depending on what interpretation a particular book is taking on Titans, while most simply do not care about humanity that's not a prerequisite. Prometheus evidently does care about humanity. Going with "Archetypal being driven by Purviews" he would be driven by his Purviews, especially Forge aqnd Fire, and humans would be a way to spread that influence and craftwork so he likes humans. If we are going with "Titan is a political distinction" then no reason he can't like humans quite a bit. He probably opposes the Theoi...but you don't really need to be evil to do that. The game is somewhat inconsistant on what a Titan is, which is not a problem but it means you have to decide what interpretation you are using OOC.

You can also view some of Prometheus helping humanity as typical Theoi family drama that mortals get caught up in, and suffer for. Prometheus tricks Zeus regarding sacrifice so that mortals can keep the meat from their sacrifices, Zeus takes fire from humanity, Prometheus steals fire back, Zeus creates Pandora and the ills of mankind (and binds Prometheus).

Prometheus might care about humanity, or maybe he's just another one of the Theoi who likes humans but also isn't bothered when they suffer the consequences of his actions. It really depends on if you think he was motivated by altruism or if he wanted to pull one over on Zeus and things got out hand.


(Prometheus right before he gets chained to a rock)

[Geoffrey]

So Theoi mythology points Prometheus as 'good guy' - defender of humanity, challenging Zeus, showing King of Gods pride and hypocrisy. In the modern world, shouldn't Prometheus be portrayed as a 'good' Titan, Inventor, positive rebel, openly worshiped by followers of Theoi? He is 'humanity person' first, isn't him?

I listened lately on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/episode/6J8VRMzFMuLqJ5G1KxYzfx"]great retelling of his story[/URL].

There are other good Titans among the Theoi: Hecate, for example.

[Dataweaver]

I think it was Franklin. I'll have to go back and look. But the saying was in print by 1790.

Please do. I know that there was a saying from back then about “all that's needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”; but I'm not finding anything about the quote you cited dating back any further than late 20th century. I'm pretty sure that one originated with Weinstein of the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

On the question about Prometheus being a good Titan, I agree with what Baroness Nerak said. As well, I'll point out that “Titans are evil!” is primarily a 1e thing; in Scion 2e, the question of who's good and who's evil is decidedly more murky.

[FallenEco]

Prometheus is present in Scion as written. Heck, there are 3 of his 'children' in the Titanomachy though they are...conflicting in descriptions. Honestly in the write up of the first one (Chloe Eirini, PG 108-109) actually implies that someone recently usurped that mantle, at least in my opinion. A "war protestor that left to handle family matters" and comes back with invite to join a war against the gods? That sounds like a major shift in personality.
But if that is true, then the other 'scions' of Prometheus (Ed &Edie Jackson PG 110) are definitely on the other end of the spectrum.
Still not listed or even mentioned in the Theoi section of the book.

So the 'current' canon is that Prometheus is somewhat hostile against the Theoi but not currently with the Titanomachy.
But your table, your interpretation. It could go either way. Honestly, Prometheus could easily end with the Keepers of the World as well. I prefer nice Prometheus but whatever.

[literatzi]

Tangental to the convo, but in my game one of the characters is an adopted daughter of Athena who found out she was a daughter of Hyperion her mother took from a cult of titan worshippers and raised. The character is a criminal mastermind and I'm really kicking myself I didn't see the obvious choice of Prometheus as her father.

[Eternl Knight]

Which Founding Father was that? A quick Google attributes it to a 21st century physicist.

It wasn't a "founding father" and I honestly thought Astromancer was making a joke (like all the modern quotes attributed to Abraham Lincoln).

(It's also a stupid saying; but that's a whole other debate.)

The entire saying it's taken from is actually rather reasonable, but you're right - this is not the forum to debate the goods & evils of real world religion. Let's not bring real-world arguments into a place for discussing fantasy demigods and their nemeses.

[Astromancer]

Prometheus has a complex literary history. Find and read (with delight) the Victorian era story "The Twilight of the Gods" for a deliciously snarky take on the fates of the Theoi. If you can't steal some good ideas from this story, and the charmingly wicked collection of tales it comes with, you aren't trying.

Shelley's "Prometheus Unbound" is a major source for positive modern views of Prometheus. Before this poem views of Prometheus were much more ambiguous. Heck, the subtitle of Shelley's wife's book "The Modern Prometheus" has some of the older disquiet with the titan in it.