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  • #31
    Originally posted by Neall View Post
    Personally? I'd love to do a Gaulish pantheon as a prime example of a "dead" or destroyed pantheon as a potential Kickstarter goal or further PDF/POD book down the line. They got completely annihilated by a militant Scion of Venus. What strange strands does Fate weave for the dead...? When you walk in the footsteps of dead gods, do they then walk like you?
    Nnnnngh. Yes. Thousands times, yes. My french mind is pleased.


    "And for my next trick" I said, "anvils!"

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Neall View Post

      Personally? I'd love to do a Gaulish pantheon as a prime example of a "dead" or destroyed pantheon as a potential Kickstarter goal or further PDF/POD book down the line. They got completely annihilated by a militant Scion of Venus. What strange strands does Fate weave for the dead...? When you walk in the footsteps of dead gods, do they then walk like you?
      So long as you put in the caveat that you are essentially making almost the entire thing up, that it's an exercise in reconstruction akin to finding a burned down house in the woods and building something on the foundations that includes pretty much everything left architecturally, but that you are doing it without anything like photograph.

      But you didn't rebuild the house. You built a new house with some old pieces here and there, a general idea of what houses like this were like typically based on some other examples and a whole lot of imagination.

      So somewhere 3 notches up from the Atlantean pantheon. Around where the WW2 pantheons are. (Since some of the "gods" are based on solid, fun folktales.... which are two steps down from myths - myths, legends, folktales.)

      Having said that, sure. Why not? It would be a ton of fun to try to sift through a lot of Roman syncretism, iconography and artwork from archaeological sites (the Gundestrup Cauldron Rules!), retconning from Irish & Welsh myths and some folktales, trying to cobble and shoehorn things together based on similarities in nomenclature (Lugh-Llew-Lugh, Nodens-Nudd-Nuada, etc.) It just needs to be telegraphed as such.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Ajax View Post

        So long as you put in the caveat that you are essentially making almost the entire thing up, that it's an exercise in reconstruction akin to finding a burned down house in the woods and building something on the foundations that includes pretty much everything left architecturally, but that you are doing it without anything like photograph.

        It just needs to be telegraphed as such.
        Why?

        I mean, given that there will be a caveat in the front of the book warning students from using Scion for their myth and religious studies homework.

        To quote something I wrote earlier:

        Keep in mind, though, that our foremost goal is a playable and enjoyable mythological game allowing players to embody the myths of legend, wear divine mantles of succession and create their own myths in the vein of old in the modern day whilst being a badass, not arguing about who's God K and who isn't. Accuracy and respect are still very high priorities. But if we're looking at Lugh of the Tuatha de Dannen and see the Welsh Lleu Llaw Gyffes and Lugus of the Gauls, there's a judgment call to be made.
        Last edited by Neall; 03-31-2015, 02:47 PM.


        Neall Raemonn Price
        Beleaguered Scion Developer

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Neall View Post

          Why?

          I mean, given that there will be a caveat in the front of the book warning students from using Scion as a basis for their myth and religious studies homework.
          I think the idea is to distinguish the theoretical pseudo-Gaul pantheon from how the others are altered, in the sense that, for example, the Lugh example you give in your quote is because you have too much to work with, while the Pseudo-Gauls would have far too little, and thus is noteworthy in its reconstructedness. Sorry if I got anything wrong, Mr or Ms Ajax.

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          • #35
            The Sumerian pantheon would be really cool. Especially Inanna, Enki and Utu. If the gods of Kemet are not too old-fashioned for the setting, neither are the sumerians.
            The Hittite empire would have been be a rich mine of ideas, but frankly, all those gods, cultures and languages colliding is just too much for a roleplaying game, and simplifying things would make the "Hittites" too generic.
            Some more variety for the Celts would be appreciated as well. Some juicy Welsh lore, perhaps? Manannan, Gwyn, Rhiannon, mmmmm...
            Bushman lore, like the kukummi Bleek and Lloyd collected? Incredible, but unlikely to make it.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Neall View Post

              Why?

              I mean, given that there will be a caveat in the front of the book warning students from using Scion for their myth and religious studies homework.

              Why not?

              You're a writer Don't you want credit for the cool stuff you make up? When you take little pieces of next to nothing a come up with something cool that is NOT actually just you doing a synthesis and a translation into a workable game format. That's a lot more of YOU in that.

              Plus, you can throw in a caveat on page after the title and say that, but that doesn't mean people will pay attention at all. People who get their Welsh mythology from Evangeline Walton are going to be getting something closer to Welsh myths that people who read Patricia Keneally Morrison's Celts-in-Space pastiche. Neither is hardcore slogging through the translations and trying to extract out "noise". (Or, for real fun, reading the Old Welsh.) For the most part and most people, that's pretty boring, if not impossible (depending on how good your Old Welsh is). Evangeline Walton threw in a very short Appendix highlighting the changes she made or when she made things up. It didn't detract from the books at all.

              People WILL get their mythology from Scion. They already do. Particularly when it comes to the less accessible pantheons. So, even with the caveat, people think the Gaulish pantheon is what the people in Gaul were worshiping before Julius came through. And it's not.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by ZealousChristian24 View Post
                I think the idea is to distinguish the theoretical pseudo-Gaul pantheon from how the others are altered, in the sense that, for example, the Lugh example you give in your quote is because you have too much to work with, while the Pseudo-Gauls would have far too little, and thus is noteworthy in its reconstructedness. Sorry if I got anything wrong, Mr or Ms Ajax.
                In that sense, the Gauls would be noteworthy, but as Ajax noted that's actually something of a bonus to us writers, in that we've got a bit more freedom to work with. Myths, legends, folktales, and yes, fantastical reconstructions all have a place in Scion and the modern myths PCs play through.


                Neall Raemonn Price
                Beleaguered Scion Developer

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ajax View Post
                  Evangeline Walton threw in a very short Appendix highlighting the changes she made or when she made things up. It didn't detract from the books at all.
                  Mm, you know, that topic could make for a few good blog posts. I'll keep it under my hat. Thanks!


                  Neall Raemonn Price
                  Beleaguered Scion Developer

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                  • #39
                    You're welcome.

                    Really, I'm not asking for anything huge. I'm not talking footnotes or anything. Something like:

                    "There really isn't much left to the Gaulish mythology, except for some fascinating artifacts and some vague references in the words of their conquerors. What follows is something built on those foundations."

                    Up to a small sidebar.

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                    • #40
                      I konw it was mentioned only in passing, but making a phoenician pantheon might be a curious thing as their religion might be said to be the definition of potpurri pantheon, the way they adopted, bastardized or mashed any and cultural influences they came across in their travels.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Baaldam View Post
                        I konw it was mentioned only in passing, but making a phoenician pantheon might be a curious thing as their religion might be said to be the definition of potpurri pantheon, the way they adopted, bastardized or mashed any and cultural influences they came across in their travels.
                        Ehh.... Not moreso than lots and lots of other folks (Romans, Hittites, Han LEAP to mind). The vast majority of polytheistic religions typically weren't really as interested in anything like orthodoxy. Ecumenicism was the general rule.

                        Which is one of the things that makes setting up a historical pantheon tough. You have to aim for a "core" that never existed in a massive 3D matrix of time and space. Probably 4D with a "cultural interaction" axis. And get a result that is readily recognizable (if the pantheon is one with good modern press) and is, more importantly, FUN!

                        I ran the Phoenician pantheon the same way I ran the Roman pantheon. They were largely later iterations of earlier influential/root cultures. Phoencian :: Canaanite as Roman :: Greek. So I just tossed Tanit on the end of Astarte's list of alternate names like Jupiter gets tacked on to Zeus. And made sure Tanit-specific attributes got included in her write-up. It's not a perfect solution, but it worked and it kept things a little more streamlined than otherwise. (Esp. since RAW is not sensitive to chronological change or syncretism.)

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                        • #42
                          What would be more useful, IMHO, would be a system that gave a set of rules/guidelines for writing up pantheons and Gods on your own. That way, you could create your own version of the Hittites, or the Australians, or the Gauls, or anything else, and know how to make them balanced and consistent in 2nd edition rules. It would be easier to provide this to customers, than to try to decide which pantheons should get "official" write-ups. Not to say that I wouldn't like products with new Gods and Goddesses in them - I just think a "build your own" system would eliminate the wait time, and let you put the work into the pantheons you need for your game.

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                          • #43
                            Step 1 in building a Pantheon tends to be "do hours or days of research" which is generally not something very helpful to put in a step-by-step guide. Considering that White Wolf/Onyx Path have never, not once, been able to provide consistent guidelines to create anything, not even characters, I have strong doubts they'll come up with a unified system to codify any and all forms of world mythology into a playable Pantheon.


                            I'm a professor! Why is no one listening to me?!

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Telgar View Post
                              Considering that White Wolf/Onyx Path have never, not once, been able to provide consistent guidelines to create anything, not even characters
                              Literally every corebook has character creation rules, Telgar. If you don't think we can do it, wait until the Kickstarter and decide for yourself. Or Gen Con, where we'll be talking about all the pantheons.

                              I will say that the ten planned pantheons for Hero are core or Companion pantheons from the prior edition, save one new one that was mentioned on the first page of this thread. The other planned ten for God and Demigod have also been mentioned in this thread, and three more have been brought up as part of the stretch goals we've floated as potentials. So...we're on the right track, I suppose.
                              Last edited by Neall; 04-26-2015, 08:32 PM.


                              Neall Raemonn Price
                              Beleaguered Scion Developer

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                              • #45
                                ...and I'll be waiting to help you all reach those stretch goals...dammit!

                                *nods firmly*


                                Mankind was once an endangered species. It will likely be so again. And mankind will only have itself to blame.

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