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  • Originally posted by Darkfoxdev View Post
    Hey i'm curious: if each of these books (origins, hero, ect.) is meant to have a different playstyle and approach then what is demigod's: origins is very dresden files, hero is more your superhero-y child of the gods handling mythical problems and and god is self explanatory in how it differs, but in what way is demigod different from hero in terms of concept and playstyle. I mean you're still half mortal children handling mythic problems so beyond powerups what has changed?
    Culture heroism and the end of the hero's journey in a few ways.


    Neall Raemonn Price
    Beleaguered Scion Developer

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    • Originally posted by Neall View Post
      Culture heroism and the end of the hero's journey in a few ways.
      Having just read Campbell and Vogler's books on the journey, I'm pleased that it's getting open consideration in this most fitting of lines.

      I also appreciate how much effort you're spending trying to get the corebooks out. We'd all love some new information, but we will love having the actual books in our hands much more.


      Mouse monk riding a tiny pig avatar courtesy of the very talented forumite Jen!

      Jen's original portrayal of Mouse Monk, featuring some human or other named Tybalt Farwander.

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      • Originally posted by unnatural1 View Post

        ​Hm. Interesting. Never looked at it that way before.

        ​Of course, even if that particular part of the story is wrong, it doesn't really change much. Unless we choose to throw out the entire story, then the story remains that it was the Jews who gave the order for Jesus' execution. It's easy enough to see how Christian could still be made to view the Jews as the responsible party. Sure, maybe in a world in which both Jews AND Theoi worshippers are still around, Christians may come to blame both groups. Since both Jews and Theoi worshippers are likely to be a minority in any predominantly Christian areas, both groups would be relatively easy prey most of the time. When people blame a group for some perceived wrong, they always tend to be bolder about persecuting that group if they know they outnumber them by a lot.

        why is blood libel apologism being spoken so casually on here? even going by the traditional christian accounting of events the pharisees were a group of religious leaders who had no power to carry out any kind of violent acts on their own, and even if that were not the case their actions are not representative of the entire jewish people of that time and certainly not of this time. The romans were the ones who held all their power in their conquered territories, assuming jesus lived, the romans tortures, crucified, and ultimately killed him.
        If it is easy to see why christians would still be made to view jewish people as the responsible party for the actions of a long dead empire it is because there has been thousands of years of antisemitic propagandizing to scape goat jewish people, cementing in the minds of western christians and western people in general that jewish people are inherently evil and untrustworthy as they have supposedly done the unthinkable by killing jesus.

        the question that glamourweaver posed was to ask what would happen in a setting where the people actually responsible for killing jesus were still around preventing the church from as easily propagandizing jewish people.

        that being said given the fact that similar scapegoating has been experienced by the rroma people for as long as they have been in europe, it is easy to see that european people have had a long courtship with hating marginalized and stateless peoples, had christianity not been used by the later roman empire as a means and justification of conquest as it was by later colonial powers then it's possible that the existence of many such groups who did not fall into a single group might have lessened this persecution of other groups that were so obviously othered as well, however the most likely occurrence is that anyone who was not a white christian in europe would have faced heavy persecution in the region just as other people who were not white christians faced heavy persecution in our own world. Its important to remember that for much of its history white christianity was anathema to all groups not similar to itself, including non-white christians, so unless the setting in the game is extremely different then i don't see much of that changing.


        Second CIrcle Demon: C'al Siphar The Benevolent Flame; Sorcerous Initiation: Symbiosis Of The Burning Heart; First Circle Demons: Rijal Al'Ghurban & Sharar Al'Najm First Draft Complete!!
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        • Originally posted by norraba View Post


          why is blood libel apologism being spoken so casually on here? even going by the traditional christian accounting of events the pharisees were a group of religious leaders who had no power to carry out any kind of violent acts on their own, and even if that were not the case their actions are not representative of the entire jewish people of that time and certainly not of this time. The romans were the ones who held all their power in their conquered territories, assuming jesus lived, the romans tortures, crucified, and ultimately killed him.
          If it is easy to see why christians would still be made to view jewish people as the responsible party for the actions of a long dead empire it is because there has been thousands of years of antisemitic propagandizing to scape goat jewish people, cementing in the minds of western christians and western people in general that jewish people are inherently evil and untrustworthy as they have supposedly done the unthinkable by killing jesus.

          the question that glamourweaver posed was to ask what would happen in a setting where the people actually responsible for killing jesus were still around preventing the church from as easily propagandizing jewish people.

          that being said given the fact that similar scapegoating has been experienced by the rroma people for as long as they have been in europe, it is easy to see that european people have had a long courtship with hating marginalized and stateless peoples, had christianity not been used by the later roman empire as a means and justification of conquest as it was by later colonial powers then it's possible that the existence of many such groups who did not fall into a single group might have lessened this persecution of other groups that were so obviously othered as well, however the most likely occurrence is that anyone who was not a white christian in europe would have faced heavy persecution in the region just as other people who were not white christians faced heavy persecution in our own world. Its important to remember that for much of its history white christianity was anathema to all groups not similar to itself, including non-white christians, so unless the setting in the game is extremely different then i don't see much of that changing.
          This is why we cannot have nice things.
          This is also why we cannot have discussions about a PRETEND history of a world that contains PRETEND versions of Abrahamic faiths.

          I'm out until the books appear at my door.

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          • Originally posted by norraba View Post
            why is blood libel apologism being spoken so casually on here?
            I wasn't aware that it was? I thought we were talking hypothetically about the fictional history of these faiths in a fictional world in which we have to reconcile their histories in a world in which all their myths happened?

            even going by the traditional christian accounting of events the pharisees were a group of religious leaders who had no power to carry out any kind of violent acts on their own, and even if that were not the case their actions are not representative of the entire jewish people of that time and certainly not of this time. The romans were the ones who held all their power in their conquered territories, assuming jesus lived, the romans tortures, crucified, and ultimately killed him.
            ​Once again? If the traditional accounting of events is correct, then in this particular case, the Pharisees DID in fact have the power to carry out violent acts. Pilate GAVE them the choice to spare or kill Jesus after personally declaring that he didn't find him guilty of any wrongdoing that merited execution. If the Pharisees chose to spare Jesus, then he would've walked away from the whole incident none the worse for wear.

            If it is easy to see why christians would still be made to view jewish people as the responsible party for the actions of a long dead empire it is because there has been thousands of years of antisemitic propagandizing to scape goat jewish people, cementing in the minds of western christians and western people in general that jewish people are inherently evil and untrustworthy as they have supposedly done the unthinkable by killing jesus.
            ​If the Christian story is correct and the Jews did, in fact, order Jesus' execution, then yes, it IS easy to see how their historical blood feud with Judaism was able to perpetuate. If they sincerely (and correctly) believe that they ordered the death of their Messiah, then that is exactly the kind of situation in which long-standing blood feuds tend to appear.

            ​Now is this a RIGHT attitude for them to take? Of course not! According to Christian beliefs, Jesus HAD to die in order to fulfill the prophecy and redeem all of mankind. It shouldn't MATTER who actually did the deed. According to Christian beliefs, that deed needed to be done. Also? Jesus' declaration of forgiveness for his killers should make it pretty clear that Jesus himself would not approve of any long-term vendettas against a group of people whom he forgave. To say nothing of the fact that his entire message was all about forgiving and showing mercy to those who wrong you.

            ​Regardless of whether or not the Christian story is accurate, Christians should not hold any animosity in their hearts toward anyone regarding Jesus' death. What some of them have done over the course of millennia is still wrong whether their story is right or not.

            the question that glamourweaver posed was to ask what would happen in a setting where the people actually responsible for killing jesus were still around preventing the church from as easily propagandizing jewish people.
            ​And my answer was to present at least one scenario in which the Christians could still come to view the Jews as being the ones responsible for Jesus' death. These are NOT my beliefs. I was presenting a possible scenario. Not quoting one of the Laws of Physics.



            "We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
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            • Originally posted by PHGraves View Post
              This is why we cannot have nice things.
              This is also why we cannot have discussions about a PRETEND history of a world that contains PRETEND versions of Abrahamic faiths.

              I'm out until the books appear at my door.
              This. My apologies for contributing to this tangent; but bear in mind that this is “Ask Neall”.


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              • Originally posted by PHGraves View Post
                This is why we cannot have nice things.
                This is also why we cannot have discussions about a PRETEND history of a world that contains PRETEND versions of Abrahamic faiths.

                I'm out until the books appear at my door.
                Assigning guilt for Christ's death is responsible for countless deaths through history, so people take it seriously. "Jews killed Christ" was the cornerstone claim of Jewish persecution and slaughter in Europe until the 20th century when eugenics and Marxist-conspiracy claims superseded it for the Nazis, though they were building on centuries of antisemitism that that had been central to the foundation of.

                It's a serious subject matter and people are going to respond to it accordingly.
                Last edited by glamourweaver; 07-10-2017, 11:42 PM.


                Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                • I have a question Neall do you have any idea when we will get something from the Kickstarter many of us backed? There hasn't even been a real update in 3 months. I've been watching the news letter for the last 4 months the books have been in development which sounds like the whole system has been scrapped and is being rewritten from scratch. Is this the case if so let your investors know what's going on. If not maybe you can give us a clearer picture of what stage we are in and what being done.

                  I don't mean to attack you or anything but 3 months with anyword is not right

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                  • Originally posted by tytalan View Post
                    I have a question Neall do you have any idea when we will get something from the Kickstarter many of us backed? There hasn't even been a real update in 3 months. I've been watching the news letter for the last 4 months the books have been in development which sounds like the whole system has been scrapped and is being rewritten from scratch. Is this the case if so let your investors know what's going on. If not maybe you can give us a clearer picture of what stage we are in and what being done.

                    I don't mean to attack you or anything but 3 months with anyword is not right
                    *cough* Shen preview in May's update, a month and a half ago.

                    Looking at Development, a couple of things were/have been in development for ages, but likely no-one would claim this was because the system was scrapped (Apocalypse's Changing Ways (almost two years), Awakening's Signs of Sorcery (over a year and counting)). Others, meanwhile, zip through comparatively quickly. It's a variable thing.

                    And the books have only been in development for a month (June 19th Monday Meeting, where they moved from Second Draft into Development).
                    Last edited by marin; 07-11-2017, 01:59 AM. Reason: Added thing on length of development.


                    Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                    • Been waitin on that Netjer revision for about eight months now...


                      Just call me Lex.

                      Female pronouns for me, please.

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                      • I can tell you guys from Neall's comments on Facebook, that it sounds like Danielle Lauzon's breakthroughs with Storypath for Trinity impacted Scion development (for the better), so it is all continuously moving forward, but with playtest feedback and stuff there's also changes being incorporated that slow things.
                        Last edited by glamourweaver; 07-11-2017, 02:41 AM.


                        Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                        • Rich mentions a backer update should be out this week in the Monday Meeting comments, so we'll see how that goes.


                          Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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                          • Originally posted by tytalan View Post
                            I have a question Neall do you have any idea when we will get something from the Kickstarter many of us backed?

                            I don't mean to attack you or anything but 3 months with anyword is not right
                            We've been doing monthly updates, but there should be another pantheon going live within the next day or so. I just turned in the manuscript for Origins, and Hero will be going in soon. I'll talk to Rich about putting out more substantial chunks of things, but we're moving along.


                            Neall Raemonn Price
                            Beleaguered Scion Developer

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                            • Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
                              Been waitin on that Netjer revision for about eight months now...
                              That'll be July-August.


                              Neall Raemonn Price
                              Beleaguered Scion Developer

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                              • I was wondering which creatures from the bestiary can scale up to demigod level

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