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  • I'm not. The passage on fatebinding that I quoted, was from the Scion Hero 2nd edition text that backers received not too long ago. Hardly "non-existent data". And yes, I am concerned with how rules will affect the Demigod and God books, even though they aren't out yet, because Origins, Hero, Demigod and God aren't four separate games - they are one progressing game that takes your character from mortal Scion to God of whatever. So I don't think it's unreasonable to reflect on how game systems impact the development of those same characters.

    That said, I'm off-topic for this thread, and will now end my comments on this particular matter.
    Last edited by Purple Snit; 04-16-2018, 09:47 AM.

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    • I still think you're extrapolating to an unreasonable degree, but since I'm also not on board with your perspective at all, there's no real reason to debate it.

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      • So invoking a Path allows you to "add two dice to any roll that plausibly applies to your Path"
        This is a very rare example of adding dice rather than an Enhancement (the only other that comes to mind is Momentum) so I just wanted to know: is this an intentional departure from standard procedure or is it a mistake and it should give some amount of Enhancement instead?

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        • So about the Beauty Purview innate power:

          It says that you may attempt a Feat of Scale when you roll to influence a character using
          your beauty, appearance, and body language.

          Is this like invoking your Legendary title, where you need to spend a point of Legend? There's a boon in Epic Strength that explicitly says the you can make a Feat of Scale without spending a point of Legend, and it limits it to once a scene.

          If you don't have to spend a point of Legend, it seems overly powerful, as it doesn't limit the effect to once per scene.
          If you do have to spend a point of Legend, then the innate power seems very weak, as it is the only innate power that requires spending Legend to get any use out of it. Sun and Moon both have the option to spend Legend, but there's also a free base effect to use.

          If Legendary Titles are a special type of path, that means that they can each be invoked once per session, and a use of that invocation is to make a Feat of Scale. Is the intent that Beauty provides a way to make Feats of Scale in terms of attraction as often as you have Legend to spend on it?

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          • Maybe jumping the gun, but I have some questions about future books:

            1) Considering that Origins and Hero will likely be out this year, will we be seeing a Kickstarter for Demigod and God this year too?

            2) Can you elaborate on how Relics are supposed to "grow" with characters as they advanced (as stated in Hero's section on Birthrights)?

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            • So, I noticed that on page 140 of origins, in the text-description of what stats to use at what range-bands, it says "Might OR Dexterity" for Short and "Dexterity OR Cunning" for Medium, but in the table later, it jut has "Dexterity" listed for Short, and just has "Cunning" listed for Medium. Which is it? I can see the argument for both ways, both from a rules-lawyerey perspective and from a game design perspective. On the one hand, player choice/agency seems to be a general thing that's promoted, as well as PC exceptionalism, which meshes with the material, so... point for the "either/or" reading. On the other hand, this makes dexterity an obvious "dump-stat" for combat-focussed scions worried about using different stats at different range-bands, reducing the number of stats they have to care about to Might and Cunning, which could cause a decrease in build-variation. I was just wondering which was intended.

              Originally posted by Samudra View Post
              I will just note though, that there is no Masquerade, so why you would need to hide from mortals is lost on me
              Many people have been running Scion a certain way for years already, and aren't going to change to a completely new genre just because we got a better set of rules. From the gyst of it (though I must admit I'm not about to pour through backlogs of forum) Purple seems to have an existing Scion group that's interested in testing out the new rules with their existing game. I myself am in the same boat with my group, and ideally, the new rules SHOULD be able to easily run games with or without "the masquerade" regardless of what the new default setting is.
              Last edited by mjorkk; 04-23-2018, 07:17 AM.

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              • Originally posted by mjorkk View Post
                So, I noticed that on page 140 of origins, in the text-description of what stats to use at what range-bands, it says "Might OR Dexterity" for Short and "Dexterity OR Cunning" for Medium, but in the table later, it jut has "Dexterity" listed for Short, and just has "Cunning" listed for Medium. Which is it? I can see the argument for both ways, both from a rules-lawyerey perspective and from a game design perspective. On the one hand, player choice/agency seems to be a general thing that's promoted, as well as PC exceptionalism, which meshes with the material, so... point for the "either/or" reading. On the other hand, this makes dexterity an obvious "dump-stat" for combat-focussed scions worried about using different stats at different range-bands, reducing the number of stats they have to care about to Might and Cunning, which could cause a decrease in build-variation. I was just wondering which was intended.

                Neil has stated that the Attributes listed are just strong suggestions, but if the gm accepts the reasoning any can be used (I think as long as it's the same physical for physical, social for social and mental for mental. Not sure if the boon rolls and defense rolls are the same though).

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                • Thank you. I don't have discord, so often miss the comments made there.

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                  • Would Hecate have godly or titan virtues? I suppose one could argue both depending on mantle.

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                    • I have a second question about how enhancement interacts with opposed rolls. Is it the pre-enhancement or the post-enhancement rolls that determine which side won, since in this case number of successes matters.



                      Edit: after multiple re-reads, I THIIINK I've got it

                      If there is a clear attacker and defender in the opposed action THEN the defender rolls first, thus their enhancement does in-fact contribute to setting the difficulty, then the attacker rolls against the now-set dificulty. This does make enhancement more valuable on the defensive side of an opposed roll, but this seems to gel with the direction of the general game: favoring defenders.

                      If there is NOT a clear defender, then FIRST both roll WITHOUT enhancement, thus determining the attacker and defender, then both parties roll enhancement, though only the newly defined "attacker" can really do anything with the resulting successes.
                      Last edited by mjorkk; 04-24-2018, 10:10 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by Terrorforge View Post
                        So invoking a Path allows you to "add two dice to any roll that plausibly applies to your Path"
                        This is a very rare example of adding dice rather than an Enhancement (the only other that comes to mind is Momentum) so I just wanted to know: is this an intentional departure from standard procedure or is it a mistake and it should give some amount of Enhancement instead?
                        Nope, that's totally legit.


                        Neall Raemonn Price
                        Beleaguered Scion Developer

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                        • Originally posted by mjorkk View Post
                          I have a second question about how enhancement interacts with opposed rolls. Is it the pre-enhancement or the post-enhancement rolls that determine which side won, since in this case number of successes matters.

                          Edit: after multiple re-reads, I THIIINK I've got it

                          If there is a clear attacker and defender in the opposed action THEN the defender rolls first, thus their enhancement does in-fact contribute to setting the difficulty, then the attacker rolls against the now-set dificulty. This does make enhancement more valuable on the defensive side of an opposed roll, but this seems to gel with the direction of the general game: favoring defenders.

                          If there is NOT a clear defender, then FIRST both roll WITHOUT enhancement, thus determining the attacker and defender, then both parties roll enhancement, though only the newly defined "attacker" can really do anything with the resulting successes.
                          Unless I am sorely mistaken, Enhancement applies to every (applicable) roll that you achieve at least one success on, regardless if it is an opposed roll or a fixed difficulty. So if an attacker with a pool of 6 dice and +3e and a defender with a pool of 8 dice and +2e are going head-to-head and both roll 1 success on their pools, the attacker will win. So only post-enhancement rolls matter (in a sense). Also, you don't roll enhancement, it is (essentially) bonus successes, not dice.

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                          • Originally posted by ffanxii4ever View Post
                            Unless I am sorely mistaken, Enhancement applies to every (applicable) roll that you achieve at least one success on, regardless if it is an opposed roll or a fixed difficulty. So if an attacker with a pool of 6 dice and +3e and a defender with a pool of 8 dice and +2e are going head-to-head and both roll 1 success on their pools, the attacker will win. So only post-enhancement rolls matter (in a sense). Also, you don't roll enhancement, it is (essentially) bonus successes, not dice.
                            Hm....not sure why, but until now I've been under the impression that enhancement was bonus dice that you only got to roll after succeeding to spend on stunts. It made sense in my mind that outside of avoiding dififculty/complication from inappropriate scale, legend wouldn't make you succeed when you would otherwise fail, but it would make your successes more EPIC. Hmm, this changes a lot.

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                            • Originally posted by mjorkk View Post

                              Hm....not sure why, but until now I've been under the impression that enhancement was bonus dice that you only got to roll after succeeding to spend on stunts. It made sense in my mind that outside of avoiding dififculty/complication from inappropriate scale, legend wouldn't make you succeed when you would otherwise fail, but it would make your successes more EPIC. Hmm, this changes a lot.
                              You still have to roll at least one success. So you don't auto succeed a diff 2 roll because you have 3e, because you still need the the one from the roll.

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                              • Hello folks in the Ask Neall thread! I know, I know, I've been absent for a while. But this weekend I'm going through the last few pages and I'll answer everything, I swear.


                                Neall Raemonn Price
                                Beleaguered Scion Developer

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