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  • Originally posted by Purple Snit View Post
    So, how is Zeus mightier, then? If he is still limited to three Callings, and there is no "divine rank", how do we determine that Quetzalcoatl is a more powerful (i.e. older, more well-rounded) deity than, say, Itzlacoliuque? Or Odin over Bragi? There should be some indicator that, "oh, Amaterasu is a bit higher on the celestial ladder than Uke-Mochi."
    It's called your Legend Rank. Zeus would be Legend 12, while Hestia is probably 9


    Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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    • Ah, they are still using Legend Rank in 2e - I wasn't clear on that. Makes sense, then. I'd probably still add extra Callings as I felt were necessary, but at least there is a rank so that one deity can be represented as stronger [so to speak] than another.

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      • Originally posted by Purple Snit View Post
        So, how is Zeus mightier, then? If he is still limited to three Callings, and there is no "divine rank", how do we determine that Quetzalcoatl is a more powerful (i.e. older, more well-rounded) deity than, say, Itzlacoliuque? Or Odin over Bragi? There should be some indicator that, "oh, Amaterasu is a bit higher on the celestial ladder than Uke-Mochi."
        The idea that more Callings makes you more powerful is a fallacy... especially given the limited number of Calling dots available a theoretical God with 4 or 5 Callings would only be able to perform a trick or two related to each.

        In addition, Pantheons like the Deva and Manitou don't have a set ruling figure, so I don't see why Pantheon rulers need any special rules, unless you want to say that Zeus with 5 Callings is somehow mightier than Durga with three (though again, that is based on the idea that more Callings = more Power, which is simply not true).

        Finally, as already noted, there is a Divine Rank... it's called your Legend Score. It does the job of power level admirably, and you thankfully no longer need Legend 12 to be a viable Divine Parent and most Gods are explicitly noted as being less than 11 even. It's specified in the last paragraph pf Page 212 of the text-only Hero pdf.

        EDIT : Ninja'ed
        Last edited by Samudra; 07-29-2018, 01:12 AM.

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        • Originally posted by Purple Snit View Post
          Ah, they are still using Legend Rank in 2e - I wasn't clear on that. Makes sense, then. I'd probably still add extra Callings as I felt were necessary, but at least there is a rank so that one deity can be represented as stronger [so to speak] than another.
          ... Why wouldn't they? I mean even in the previews leading up to the Kickstarter, Neall mentioned things like "Every third dot of Legend, you pick up an Omen"


          Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Purple Snit View Post
            Ah, they are still using Legend Rank in 2e - I wasn't clear on that. Makes sense, then. I'd probably still add extra Callings as I felt were necessary, but at least there is a rank so that one deity can be represented as stronger [so to speak] than another.
            Creator/Ruling deities get a higher Legend, and among the Olympians, perhaps only Zeus, Poseidon, and Hades are Legend 12.


            Neall Raemonn Price
            Beleaguered Scion Developer

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            • Works for me. I obviously missed references to legend during the development process.

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              • Originally posted by Purple Snit View Post
                Works for me. I obviously missed references to legend during the development process.
                No worries! A lot changed as I plotted out how the rest of the line works. At the God tier, you have to take on a "Role" within your pantheon in order to have higher amounts of Legend, which means playing divine politics and maybe leading a revolt or two.

                Of course, you could just make your own pantheon...


                Neall Raemonn Price
                Beleaguered Scion Developer

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                • Originally posted by Neall View Post
                  No worries! A lot changed as I plotted out how the rest of the line works. At the God tier, you have to take on a "Role" within your pantheon in order to have higher amounts of Legend, which means playing divine politics and maybe leading a revolt or two.

                  Of course, you could just make your own pantheon...
                  Oh can you tell us more about that?

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                  • Ah on the topic of legend. Do Titans also follow the same legend scale as gods? 9 to 12?


                    .

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                    • The Hindu Pantheon seem very different in Scion. They come off as the most Anti-Titan despite numerous myths of allying or joining with demons of various stripes. It seems odd they are on the forefront as compared to the Greeks. It also felt weird that the "love story" of Freyr and Gerd as well as Hades and Persephone (and perhaps the discretion of the entire Greek Pantheon) got sanitized as romantic where the originals were tales of capture and threats, but The love Story of Sita and Rama got called out. It feels like the setting made them a bit of the "bad guys" and I was wondering how that came about and if there was a setting reason they changed?

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                      • Originally posted by PrinceKittyCat View Post
                        The Hindu Pantheon seem very different in Scion. They come off as the most Anti-Titan despite numerous myths of allying or joining with demons of various stripes. It seems odd they are on the forefront as compared to the Greeks. It also felt weird that the "love story" of Freyr and Gerd as well as Hades and Persephone (and perhaps the discretion of the entire Greek Pantheon) got sanitized as romantic where the originals were tales of capture and threats, but The love Story of Sita and Rama got called out. It feels like the setting made them a bit of the "bad guys" and I was wondering how that came about and if there was a setting reason they changed?
                        The Hindu Pantheon is anti-Titan because their mythology is practically defined by their wars with the Asura and their variants... the Veda are very clear on the glory of the Gods in their battle against the thieves of Water, Light and Cattle, all Big Deals, and the latter Purana literature practically starts every chapter with 'And then, the Asura attacked...'

                        There are, of course, multiple instances of Deva favouring Asura, but those stories kind of get grossly outnumbered by the ones where they fight them or trick them out of power... they're not even mutually exclusive, frankly, as is the case with Bali, who was tricked out of his empire by Vishnu but who is also a devoted servant of Vishnu, to the point that Vishnu gave him an entire slice of Reality to rule, in the form of Sutala, one of the Patala levels (I'd like to note here that the Patala levels are consistently portrayed as amazing places to live, with Bali's Sutala explicitly noted as being better than Indra's Heaven, so it's not like he got a raw deal)... but the fact remains that the Deva do not hesitate to stomp out any Titan activity that threatens their worshipers. It's a very strong theme throughout their literature.

                        I'll also note that the Deva individual write-ups make it very clear that that is not a universal feeling... Ganesha explicitly is totally open to Asura alliance, and only Durga and Indra get called out as ruthlessly dedicated to Titan eradication... and of these Durga is again explicitly noted as being only dedicated and driven by defense... she doesn't start battles, she just finishes them, very, very thoroughly. Indra is the big hawk, and that completely suits his character as someone who explicitly goes out of his way to harass innocent Asura as well (never mind that he's married to a Titan, but I figure he doesn't like total about it).

                        As for the Sita-Rama episode, I can't speak for the thoughts of the Greek or Norse writers or their stories, but the love story of Sita and Rama gets called out by Hindus all the time... pointing out how horribly Rama treats his wife after he's defeated Ravana is a very common theme in modern critics of the tale, and even ancient writers clearly didn't like it cuz there's multiple versions of the Ramayana (which has several variations) that just erase that part of the story... this ranges from scholars arguing that the Section of the Valmiki Ramayana where this was described was never an original part, to straight up re-writes like the Ramacharitmanas (the actual most popular Ramayana version, not the Valmiki Ramayana) straight up just stopping the story after the happily ever after, to the really weird stuff like the Adbhuta Ramayana where Sita turns into Kali and murders Ravana herself, and Rama is too scared stiff afterwards to ever entertain thoughts of exiling his wife... basically calling that story out is very much in theme with what actual followers of the religion have been doing for ages.

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                        • Originally posted by PrinceKittyCat View Post
                          The Hindu Pantheon seem very different in Scion. They come off as the most Anti-Titan despite numerous myths of allying or joining with demons of various stripes. It seems odd they are on the forefront as compared to the Greeks. It also felt weird that the "love story" of Freyr and Gerd as well as Hades and Persephone (and perhaps the discretion of the entire Greek Pantheon) got sanitized as romantic where the originals were tales of capture and threats, but The love Story of Sita and Rama got called out. It feels like the setting made them a bit of the "bad guys" and I was wondering how that came about and if there was a setting reason they changed?
                          Titanomachy is backstory in Greek mythology. Their myths are defined by the petty family squabbles of the Olympians themselves, not continuing conflict with the Titans (unless you count the one myth about Typhon and the Gigantomachy, which while not literally about Titans in the original sense, probably fall under that umbrella for Scion purposes - but still are an outlier compared to “Zeus was horny one day and -“ myths).

                          Battling Asura is CENTRAL in the Vedas as Samudra lays out above.
                          Last edited by glamourweaver; 09-09-2018, 01:16 PM.


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                          • Originally posted by PrinceKittyCat View Post
                            The Hindu Pantheon seem very different in Scion. They come off as the most Anti-Titan despite numerous myths of allying or joining with demons of various stripes. It seems odd they are on the forefront as compared to the Greeks. It also felt weird that the "love story" of Freyr and Gerd as well as Hades and Persephone (and perhaps the discretion of the entire Greek Pantheon) got sanitized as romantic where the originals were tales of capture and threats, but The love Story of Sita and Rama got called out. It feels like the setting made them a bit of the "bad guys" and I was wondering how that came about and if there was a setting reason they changed?
                            In the version of the Eddas I read Freyr and Gerd was more "seeing her from affar and arranged marrige". And I've seen many interpretations of Hades and Persephone were Persephone was either reciprocating Hades affections, or trying to piss Demeter off and Demeter reacted with "She'd never marry that jerk, he must have kidnapped her!"

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                            • I greatly prefer the version where Persephone reciprocates Hades's affections and Demeter freaks out. It's a lot more interesting than instance #3,678 of "a Theoi commits a terrible sexual crime."

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                              • Originally posted by Wannabe Demon Lord View Post
                                I greatly prefer the version where Persephone reciprocates Hades's affections and Demeter freaks out. It's a lot more interesting than instance #3,678 of "a Theoi commits a terrible sexual crime."
                                Agreed. And it sets Hades apart as one of the very small number of truly decent Theoi.

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