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  • Norse and Nerves

    Hello all,

    I am an inexperienced ST who's trying to resurrect my first Scion game by request of the players. Not sure why it petered out in the first place, but I suspect it had something to do with long drives and a bit of chaos in life. Since I've never made it past Hero-level in a Scion game, I'm writing this chronicle to both entertain and to be open to advice.

    Here's a part of the setting, I'll update the rest when I have more time.

    Taking place in New York City, a Band of four were created on the same night when their divine parents performed a Visitation. Lad Gould is the son of Baldur and one of NYC's finest. Noble and talkative, he received a pet wolf and a sword that can be transformed into a bracer, while granting him the purviews Guardian and Sun. Katya is the daughter of Hel and a mortician. Supposedly a cynic, she now has access to the Death & Magic boons through a leather belt, while wielding a scythe. Her pet isn't much of a pet. A Gambian Rat she has dubbed 'Janah', the large rodent can speak to her and her alone. Vjun is the son of Vidar and a hunter. Reluctantly away from his preferred domain of woods and solitude, he has a chestplate that gives him frost armor with the cost of a legend point, along with vambraces to channel Justice. Finally, he has a ferret. No, it can't talk. Yes, it is smarter than the average ferret. But, in Vidar's eyes, it's an insult gift to show his displeasure at Vjun's hiding away from society. Lastly, Jamie 'Moriarty', criminal consultant and daughter of Loki. Mischevious, she now has five tattoos with the runes for Fire, Frost, Magic, Chaos, and Illusion. But her preferred weapon is a Remington who has seen gleeful use lately.

    Their current quest is to find Thor's belt. During a raid, the Son of Odin went missing when the dust settled. While the Aesir can't find him, a prophecy has hinted at it being somewhere in the Big Apple. With the giants keeping pressure on Asgard, none of the gods can be away for too long. Thus, Odin has made arrangements for these scions to receive their Visitation so that they may find the Belt in their stead.

    And that's where our players are pretty much. The only clue they have is that there is a crime wave and a dose of supernatural activity going on in Hell's Kitchen. In addition to that, bodies have been going missing lately, noticed by Katya. Jamie checked with one of her contacts, and, while not too much info, she now has a job to deliver five stiffs for 10 grand each to one of the piers. Today, (after getting the party back together) they'll hopefully be headed into Hell's Kitchen to get to the bottom of this.

    As far as the overall setting, most of the other pantheons have been destroyed, along with their respective titans. There may be a god here and a legendary being there, but it's mostly left to the Norse now. This means Ragnorak will likely not be a localized event.

    I've only introduced one houserule so far. For major events that add to their legends, I give out legend experience points, which can only be used to raise legend.

    That's all of it.
    Last edited by simison; 07-16-2015, 11:17 AM.

  • #2
    Okay, we had our first new session last Thursday.


    It was a mess.

    Perhaps reading through John Scion's Resource's archived blogs wasn't as practical as coming up with more plot or making sure I had the combat rules memorized. The session started with individual segments. My goal for this session was to get everyone back on their bikes. That meant trying to get them into character, while re-uniting the party. To help them get into character, I thought giving each of them a little sidequest might help.

    Vjun, after fruitlessly wandering around Central Park asking for hobos for info, ran into Gridny, the forest maiden/nymph of Central Park. After noticing the rose in her hair was actually growing out of her scalp, Vjun divined (pun not intended?) her supernatural nature. After a terse beginning, things relaxed, and they came up with a deal. If Vjun dealt with vandals for her, she would provide any kind of aid. The conversation ended with Gridny warning Vjun that she had sensed titanspawn at the edge of her park, near Hell's Kitchen.

    Jamie got a call from a former-thug-now-mob-boss named Moran. He needed a letter delivered to a judge living in Hell's Kitchen and was asking for a favor of Jamie since he was the one who helped her move from simple thief to criminal consultant. She accepted.

    Katya had a less pleasant surprise. As she was finishing up a day's work in the morgue, Jessica, a murdered young woman, started haunting her, demanding that Katya avenge her. While Katya agreed, the specter has continued to follow her until the deed is done.

    By far the worst one, Lad was called into his superior's office, who had heard of his inquiries into the crime of Hell's Kitchen. The LT, eager for more help with the new crime wave, assigned Lad to the neighborhood. Not a bad premise, but I didn't actually give anything for Lad to do. I had intended for random encounters to happen, while he was in Hell's Kitchen, but nothing happened this session.

    So, as you can see, not only was I trying to give the characters things to do, but I was trying to get them to go together.

    It didn't work out that way. It half-worked. Vjun and Katya met up, ready to move into Hell's Kitchen. Jamie, however, had the actual link to the main story. First, she called Katya and tried to get the bodies that way without explaining what she was up to. Katya refused. Well, that was one easy way removed. The exchanged happened, while I was in the other room with Vjun's player. Otherwise, I would've had Janah straighten it out.

    Let me pause and explain Janah, since none of my players will probably come around these parts. From a strictly mechanics view, Janah is a two-dot creature, the second dot granting him E.Intelligence. To explain this, I've decided that Janah is actually a failed Son of Hel who's been rewarded (or condemned) to have his soul stuck in a rat, and be Hel's connection to her daughter. Janah is bitter about the experience, but that was compounded by Katya's attitude toward him. The two now have a very antagonistic relationship, though Janah won't abandon her, much as he wants to. Now, back to the story.

    Denied access, Jamie goes through her contacts. None of her Underworld contacts can supply her because most of the floating corpses have already been bought. So, she turns to the nearby university's storage of cadavers. Although the professor in charge is corrupt, she's not willing to see how much he actually wants. Instead, she calls Lad and tricks him into securing the bodies for her (getting her 6 bodies instead of the 5 the original deal asks for). The Son of Baldur arrives at the university, in-person and in uniform. The professor, fearful that the city's hero cop has shown up at his door, immediately caves when Lad asks for the bodies for 'police work'.

    That's fine with me, but not the next step. After procuring a van to transport the bodies, Jamie tries to go to the exchange site...alone. Lad is suspicious enough to insist on traveling with her. But no one attempts to bring the other half of the Band. So, when Lad calls the other two to say they're going to be later, Janah warns Katya that they need to be there as well. After some finagling, the Band reunites at the Pier where Jamie is supposed to drop off the bodies. The meeting site is within a small maze of shipping containers. Vjun and Katya had arrived first and had been waiting long enough to realize the area was being patrolled. Instead of bringing the Band with her, in case of danger, Jamie takes the bodies in alone.
    *sigh*

    To be fair, I wasn't dead set on a fight breaking out, but I was ready for it. What happens is Jamie goes in and makes the deal with no issue, even getting a hesitant invite to a new titan cult along with the $60k for the bodies.She considers it, but makes no decision since she can just come back with another batch of cadavers.

    (Now, if I had been quicker on my feet, the moment I knew combat wasn't going to break out, I should've had something happen with the other three. Definitely should have been something related to crime to give some kind of detail to Lad's side quest. Alas.)

    She returns, and the four agree to have supper at a nearby diner. But Jamie needs to stop at a bank alone...

    Out of curiosity, anybody else have this much trouble keeping the Band together? Or is this a secondary skill of Loki's kids?

    Lad insists, but the other two go ahead. The bank stop is simple. Not trusting the money, Jamie deposits the cash into a safety deposit box that only she and Lad knows about. It's at this point, I decide something needs to happen to Vjun and Katya. In hindsight, throwing in a frost giant might've been overkill since I didn't know how they would react to it. What was supposed to be another quick peek at the supernatural, turned into something else. After ordering their food, Vjun and Katya are waiting when a frost giant walks in to grab a quick order. He walks out before Jamie and Lad get there. Like I said, I was just trying to give them a taste and thought it'd end right there.

    Nope.

    Instead, they immediately try to devise a way to track the frost giant before he gets too far away, which lead to this small conversation between Janah and Katya.

    Katya: Janah! We need you to follow the frost giant!

    Janah: What!? No! I'll get stomped!

    Katya: Just be stealthy.

    Janah: No, not doing it.

    Katya: How about I give you something?

    Janah: Frost giant.

    Katya: How about I give you a snack?

    Janah: Frost giant!

    Katya: Two snacks?

    Janah: FROST GIANT!

    Katya: Three snacks?

    Janah: FROST! GIANT!


    She never did convince him. By the time they had left, Janah had bitten and peed on her. Fun times.

    So, they ran out the diner right as Jamie and Lad arrived. With a brief explanation, the Band began to tail the titanspawn. Thanks to Jamie, they never lost track of it. When it threw a hobo who had accidentally walked into it into a nearby wall with bones cracking, Lad declared enough was enough and attacked.

    The resulting two rounds of combat showed that no one remembered the rules of combat. Since we were out of time, we ended the session to right before the combat had started. My homework to the players (and myself) was to learn the rules of combat.

    Despite all of the chaos, people did have fun and are ready for more. The biggest lessons I've learned is that A) know the rules and B) a single page of material isn't enough for a three-hour session. I'm also considering tossing out the Legendary XP. My players are struggling with it, and I've read that it's better to just give it Legend dots at story-appropriate times.

    Comments or suggestions?

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    • #3
      Now, while I was under-prepared for that session, I did have the end point of this first story sketched out. Thor's Belt is currently being worn by Owney Madden, a Legend 3 Aptranger, former head of the Hell’s Kitchen’s Gopher Gang. He is a creation of the svartalfar, who are trying to wreck NYC and kick-start Fimbulvetr. They're the ones collecting bodies and are turning them into a zombie horde in the basement of an environmental high school in Hell's Kitchen. Every night the Band fails to reach them translates into another twenty more zombies that they'll (and the NYPD) will have to deal with. If they don't find them before Yule, the horde will be unleashed.

      Comment


      • #4
        That's hilarious, I'm re-resurrecting this game a year after my last collapse.

        Well, it is alive again and with two more additions.

        Joining the Band is a nameless Scion of Heimdall and Leithe, Scion of Freya. Last night was essentially getting everyone re-familiarized with their characters and helping the two new additions craft their characters.

        Leithe is fulfilling the role of Healer in the party and plays an Irish whistle that transforms into a Quarterstaff. She will also receive an Irish wolfhound, whom she's already nicknamed 'Talky' on her character sheet.

        The Scion of Heimdall already has a lot of interesting ideas going for him. He has all of the Perception and has a black glass eye. My wife suggested that during the Visitation, Heimdall rips out a healthy eye and replaced it with the new eye. Grisly, but that's not all. He intends to buy Shadow Mask and have the eye be the device that spews the darkness he wraps himself in.

        The only thing of note is now I see why most Scion games I've started in had STs start the party at Legend 3. Being limited to the first level of E.attributes and Boons allows characters to be jack-of-trades but limits their ability to distinguish themselves from their band-mates.

        Also, I am amused that I wrote the results of the last session here, but not in my ST notes on Word. Will have to fix that, but at least I know where everyone is at the start of the next session.
        Last edited by simison; 06-24-2016, 05:00 PM.

        Comment


        • #5
          I've learned (I hope) a couple of things from my last failed attempt to ST. I think I understand why I quickly burn out on storytelling. While I loved doing the set-up and creating the world for my players and coming up with the sessions, I am still an introvert. Thus, the normal stress of leading a session does double the damage to me. I was also very insecure and was extra hard on myself during these sessions. I'm aiming to be more confident in myself because my players obviously were having fun if they are asking me to do it again.

          Another thing I've learned was that I was trying to hard to establish the characters and their personal stories as opposed developing them as a Band, which is why they kept splitting apart.

          The last thing I've learned or changed is furious wave of research of Norse mythology. Trying to determine who is Aesir or Vanir, learning about the Nine Worlds, and much more. There are some ideas I'd like to try, but it's too late, like combining Freya and Frigg into one goddess. Regardless, I feel like I have a much firmer understanding the world of Norse mythology, which gives me a better foundation to ST on.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by simison View Post
            The only thing of note is now I see why most Scion games I've started in had STs start the party at Legend 3. Being limited to the first level of E.attributes and Boons allows characters to be jack-of-trades but limits their ability to distinguish themselves from their band-mates.
            Starting at Legend 2 is really difficult in RAW to allow Scions to differentiate themselves from each other. Normally where you will see the biggest variation, and characters distinguishing themselves is through Birthrights, and their Pantheon Specific Purviews. Since I believe you are running an all Norse game, the Pantheon Specific Purviews are obviously all the same, so that takes out that method.

            What I generally see with Legend 2 characters I create, see others create, and in the one game I am running, is that Birthrights form the key forms of mechanical variation. However, unfortunately RAW has a sort of... weird Birthright system, so you probably don't have as much room for uniqueness in that area as well.

            Originally posted by simison View Post
            Out of curiosity, anybody else have this much trouble keeping the Band together? Or is this a secondary skill of Loki's kids?
            Not really. Most of the games I have played in / run normally start with what you did in the first session as background, or just have some outside unification force, such as all being hired to work together, or a Deity just going, "Congratulations, you're all doing what I tell you because I am vastly more important than you."

            Originally posted by simison View Post
            I'm also considering tossing out the Legendary XP. My players are struggling with it, and I've read that it's better to just give it Legend dots at story-appropriate times.
            Giving out Dots of Legend in return for people being sufficiently Legendary (i.e. out Appearancing a Gorgon to prevent a city block from being turned to stone, beating down a Legend 4 Avatared down God at Legend 2, ect) is probably the best solution. Legendary XP is just extra book keeping. Try to keep everyone within 1 Dot of each other, and you probably never want anyone to hit a higher tier before the rest of the Band. For 4-5, and 8-9, do some sort of communal Legend Up. It just prevents a huge amount of hassle.

            Originally posted by simison View Post
            I've learned (I hope) a couple of things from my last failed attempt to ST. I think I understand why I quickly burn out on storytelling. While I loved doing the set-up and creating the world for my players and coming up with the sessions, I am still an introvert. Thus, the normal stress of leading a session does double the damage to me. I was also very insecure and was extra hard on myself during these sessions. I'm aiming to be more confident in myself because my players obviously were having fun if they are asking me to do it again.
            I am really introverted. Like, paralyzed by phone calls bad. Running games can be difficult sometimes, but you can get into the flow of it. What's probably the best next step for you here is to almost be less... focused? You have mentioned players doing unexpected things, or mention "not being dead set on combat breaking out" which is a difficult first hurdle for a lot of people. Especially in Scion more so than most RPGs.

            You just kinda gotta let the players do as they will. Don't plan things in too much detail, and never, ever expect something to happen. Scions are incredibly powerful, both through their own capacity, but also through the fact they have fully fledged Deities backing them up. Especially the Norse who have Loyalty, their Divine Parents will always be on their side. Heck, the entire Pantheon (- Hel) is probably always going to be backing the Band up unless they do something fundamentally abhorrent. Odin probably the lest, and Loki the most (Loki gets a bad rap modernly, but up until the Baldur-Murder, Loki is flat out the most loyal and helpful Pantheon member) likely to help if asked. These Scions are all family to the Aesir (except those related to the three Vanir in RAW, Njord, Freya, and Freyr, but even they have a family-like structure and social requirements for protection due to being political hostages) which means the Aesir are both socially, legally, and Virtue compelled to be helpful.

            So, don't be too worried about your Scions. They can probably face down most challenges you throw at them by hook or by crook if they think innovatively.

            Originally posted by simison View Post
            The last thing I've learned or changed is furious wave of research of Norse mythology. Trying to determine who is Aesir or Vanir, learning about the Nine Worlds, and much more. There are some ideas I'd like to try, but it's too late, like combining Freya and Frigg into one goddess. Regardless, I feel like I have a much firmer understanding the world of Norse mythology, which gives me a better foundation to ST on.
            If you're doing a purely Norse-centric game, reading up on them as much as you can is probably only going to be helpful. Just some hints though. Freya, Freyr, and their father Njord are the Vanir currently being held as political hostages by the Aesir as part of the peace pact between the two Pantheons. If you rule Frigg is Freya, she would thereby also be Vanir, but doing this creates a whole lotta chronology problems (Odin and his brothers met Frigg way, way, way before they ever meet the Vanir IIRC) but RAW Aesir are filled with chronology problems. Like, I believe Vidar isn't actually supposed to be born until after the death of Baldur during the events of Ragnarok. Also, the Nine Worlds are inconsistant, varying depending on which document you use. I'd suggest either 'canonizing' which these are, or allowing there actually be elleven (I think) Nine Worlds.

            Since you've offed all of the Pantheons that are not Norse, and their Titans, you also may be at a disadvantage for Titanic antagonists. A really quick and dirty list of entities you could make into Titans for the Norse are as follows.
            • Jormungand - Animal or Water Realm.
            • Fenrir - Animal Realm.
            • Skoll and Hadi - Darkness Realm.
            • Nourns - Fate Realm.
            • Utgard-Loki - Illusion Realm.
            • Sutr - Fire Realm.
            • Sol - Light/Sun Realm.
            • Mani - Celestial/Moon Realm.
            • Ran - Water Realm.
            • Aegur - Water Realm.
            • Nidhogg - Death Realm.
            • Odr - War Realm.
            • Jord - Earth Realm.
            Now, not all of these are antagonistic Titans (RAW says all Titans are antagonistic, but that's sort of complicated and hard to make work in actual mythology) with the Nourns, Sol, Mani, Ran, Aegur, Oor, and Jord all ranging from neutral to friendly to the Pantheon.

            If you've got any other questions, or if I missed any of yours, just let us know!
            Last edited by Watcher; 06-25-2016, 01:10 AM. Reason: Spelling issues, you know, the norm.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Watcher View Post
              What I generally see with Legend 2 characters I create, see others create, and in the one game I am running, is that Birthrights form the key forms of mechanical variation. However, unfortunately RAW has a sort of... weird Birthright system, so you probably don't have as much room for uniqueness in that area as well.
              Agreed with the Birthright system being the main method. It's led to some interesting ideas taken form. Jamie's birthrights are Norse runes tattooed on her body that give her access to her purviews. I've already mentioned the glass eye of darkness. And, animals have proven to be really popular with this crowd. No one has considered a mentor or having allies at their beck and call.

              Originally posted by Watcher View Post
              Giving out Dots of Legend in return for people being sufficiently Legendary (i.e. out Appearancing a Gorgon to prevent a city block from being turned to stone, beating down a Legend 4 Avatared down God at Legend 2, ect) is probably the best solution. Legendary XP is just extra book keeping. Try to keep everyone within 1 Dot of each other, and you probably never want anyone to hit a higher tier before the rest of the Band. For 4-5, and 8-9, do some sort of communal Legend Up. It just prevents a huge amount of hassle.
              It didn't even occur to me to allow some scions to be on different legend levels. But I do have a concern. Jamie is our ninja, and she should be rewarded just as much legend for pulling off some epic stealth things, but legend is all about becoming more famous/infamous. If everything she's doing is in the shadows, what's my reason for rewarding her with more popularity?


              Originally posted by Watcher View Post
              You just kinda gotta let the players do as they will. Don't plan things in too much detail, and never, ever expect something to happen. Scions are incredibly powerful, both through their own capacity, but also through the fact they have fully fledged Deities backing them up. Especially the Norse who have Loyalty, their Divine Parents will always be on their side. Heck, the entire Pantheon (- Hel) is probably always going to be backing the Band up unless they do something fundamentally abhorrent. Odin probably the lest, and Loki the most (Loki gets a bad rap modernly, but up until the Baldur-Murder, Loki is flat out the most loyal and helpful Pantheon member) likely to help if asked. These Scions are all family to the Aesir (except those related to the three Vanir in RAW, Njord, Freya, and Freyr, but even they have a family-like structure and social requirements for protection due to being political hostages) which means the Aesir are both socially, legally, and Virtue compelled to be helpful.

              So, don't be too worried about your Scions. They can probably face down most challenges you throw at them by hook or by crook if they think innovatively.
              What I'm trying to do now is have all of the details of the environment but not what have a detailed idea for what's going on. I originally thought the Band was at the drop off point, and we were starting from there before I rediscovered this thread. My plan was to outline three broad paths the Band could take: social, stealth, and combat. I made sure I knew who the cultists were, their general skill set, and a solid picture of the pier. That way, I felt like I could react to most of the choices the Band took without over-planning.

              You do bring up an interesting point. I had forgotten about the Loyalty of the Asa, but I'm concerned. How often would they choose to help? I'm worried about having one too many Dues Ex Machinas.

              Originally posted by Watcher View Post
              If you're doing a purely Norse-centric game, reading up on them as much as you can is probably only going to be helpful. Just some hints though. Freya, Freyr, and their father Njord are the Vanir currently being held as political hostages by the Aesir as part of the peace pact between the two Pantheons. If you rule Frigg is Freya, she would thereby also be Vanir, but doing this creates a whole lotta chronology problems (Odin and his brothers met Frigg way, way, way before they ever meet the Vanir IIRC) but RAW Aesir are filled with chronology problems. Like, I believe Vidar isn't actually supposed to be born until after the death of Baldur during the events of Ragnarok. Also, the Nine Worlds are inconsistant, varying depending on which document you use. I'd suggest either 'canonizing' which these are, or allowing there actually be elleven (I think) Nine Worlds.

              Since you've offed all of the Pantheons that are not Norse, and their Titans, you also may be at a disadvantage for Titanic antagonists. A really quick and dirty list of entities you could make into Titans for the Norse are as follows.

              If you've got any other questions, or if I missed any of yours, just let us know!
              I knew about those three Vanir and chose not to combine Freya and Frigg for this game (though I may do it for a future game). So far, I think the biggest changes I've made to the pantheon is that I've officially labeled Sif & Uller as Vanir, and that Odr, Freya's husband, is secretly Odin who had visited the Vanir in disguise long before the Aesir-Vanir war broke out. Oh, I've also killed off Vili and Ve via Fire and Frost giants, but the impact of that was never going to be much considering how little those two do. But I thought it added some context on why Odin obsesses so much over the pursuit of wisdom and knowledge.

              Are the titanrealms necessary? This is one of the few Scion concepts that has always struck me weird, and I've never made it far enough as a player for one to come up. My intent was to detail the Nine Worlds and go from there since the titanrealms are more about living concepts as opposed to just being alien lands filled with monsters and hostile deities/entities.

              Lastly, thank you for replying! I had just made peace with the idea that this was going to be nothing more than a ST log for myself. Certainly read, but just me speaking.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by simison View Post
                Agreed with the Birthright system being the main method. It's led to some interesting ideas taken form. Jamie's birthrights are Norse runes tattooed on her body that give her access to her purviews. I've already mentioned the glass eye of darkness. And, animals have proven to be really popular with this crowd. No one has considered a mentor or having allies at their beck and call.
                It's actually interesting that there are so many critters hanging around your Band. The Norse have issues with animals. If you notice, most of the Gods die to animals (Fenrir, Gram, Hadi, Skoll, Jormungand are the main killers) with only a few having animal servants. Thor, and Freya are the most obvious, but they very specifically have domesticated animals pulling their chariots. Gullinbursti is Freyr's boar, but it's less animal more construct I suppose. However, Odin has a lot of animals, including wild animals (Hunin, Munin, Geri, Freki, Sleipnir) and this actually is part of his limital role as a God between what is accepted, and what isn't. Odin really skirts that line with social acceptability. You could do something with your Band's critters, since if they're not wild, they're mostly a marker of the figure being limital like Odin is. (except without being Odin, they don't have all the political power to prevent people talking)


                Originally posted by simison View Post
                It didn't even occur to me to allow some scions to be on different legend levels. But I do have a concern. Jamie is our ninja, and she should be rewarded just as much legend for pulling off some epic stealth things, but legend is all about becoming more famous/infamous. If everything she's doing is in the shadows, what's my reason for rewarding her with more popularity?
                Oh, that thing. Okay, so, you need to invert that concept. RAW has this idea that your Legend reflects how well known you are, for good or for bad. This is really bad since it makes the Manipulation and other sneaky characters almost impossible to gain Legend with. What you can do instead is make having a higher Legend increase how well you are known (rather than the other way around) and have mortals start spontaneously learning of these modern myths.

                The other issue with Legend working as it does in RAW is that someone could 'give' someone else Legend. Say, for example, Baldur just drops down at Legend 12 in downtown New York and talks with one of their Scions infront of a ton of people. By RAW Legend logic, that Scion is going to raise in Legend a bunch due to the sheer social weight of Baldur with his 11 Dot Appearance and Charisma. If the world worked like this, then you have to start explaining why people don't do this, and it becomes a mess on top of the previous problem of the sneaky Scions not actually being able to gain Legend without being bad at what they're supposed to be good at.

                Originally posted by simison View Post
                You do bring up an interesting point. I had forgotten about the Loyalty of the Asa, but I'm concerned. How often would they choose to help? I'm worried about having one too many Dues Ex Machinas.
                You can't do it all the time, obviously. The Gods won't get involved in everything. But, keep in mind, the Norse have two All Seeing people (Odin on his throne + ravens, and Heimdall who is just aware of everything all the time) so they will, without even trying, be aware of everything the Band is doing unless something powerful is trying to prevent this. (and in that case, they would then be aware someone is trying to hide things from them and it becomes a whole thing) So, Thor probably wouldn't arrive in 99.9% of situations, but if the Band was all on the verge of dying, you should consider the following.

                How much time and effort have their Divine Parents put into these Scions? This sort of depends on how common Scions are in your setting, but if Scions are rare, these kiddos are a Big Investment and the Divine may interject here and there. While, you can't do this all the time least all tension vanish from a story, the Gods, unless occupied by something else really important, will want to save their kids. Especially the Norse. Especially-especially-especially the Norse. Some good In-Myth examples of this happening can be seen all through the Iliad where Aphrodite just drags Paris (or was it Aeneas, one of the two) off the battlefield so they don't die. Or, in the Cattle Raid of Cooley, Lugh shows up and heals CuChulain a bit. (more like he knocks his son out to calm him down)

                But, doing this all the time removes all tension. But, what should be remembered is the Gods are not stagnant, they themselves are up to things. If Thor sees one of his kids about to be killed by a Giant, he may immediately drop everything to save them, but there must be consequences for Thor. Maybe Thor was protecting someone during this and he leaves them alone. While the Band is saved, a God dies in the Overworld as a consequence for the Band.

                Originally posted by simison View Post
                Are the titanrealms necessary? This is one of the few Scion concepts that has always struck me weird, and I've never made it far enough as a player for one to come up. My intent was to detail the Nine Worlds and go from there since the titanrealms are more about living concepts as opposed to just being alien lands filled with monsters and hostile deities/entities.
                I, personally, think Titanrealms are unnecessary. Also, they're mythologically problematic. For example, Atlas is just imprisoned at the edge of the world. No special place, just past Oceanus, where Helios, and Eos live as well. I just listed them there since a lot of people prefer them. You can just say Jomungard is resting at the bottom of the ocean of... Jotunheim? I can't remember where Thor fishes him up.

                Originally posted by simison View Post
                Lastly, thank you for replying! I had just made peace with the idea that this was going to be nothing more than a ST log for myself. Certainly read, but just me speaking.
                No worries man, I've never see this post before, sorry no one had responded sooner. Just holler if you need anything else.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Watcher View Post

                  It's actually interesting that there are so many critters hanging around your Band. The Norse have issues with animals. If you notice, most of the Gods die to animals (Fenrir, Gram, Hadi, Skoll, Jormungand are the main killers) with only a few having animal servants. Thor, and Freya are the most obvious, but they very specifically have domesticated animals pulling their chariots. Gullinbursti is Freyr's boar, but it's less animal more construct I suppose. However, Odin has a lot of animals, including wild animals (Hunin, Munin, Geri, Freki, Sleipnir) and this actually is part of his limital role as a God between what is accepted, and what isn't. Odin really skirts that line with social acceptability. You could do something with your Band's critters, since if they're not wild, they're mostly a marker of the figure being limital like Odin is. (except without being Odin, they don't have all the political power to prevent people talking)
                  If there's one thing I've learned in my research is just how much of a gray character Odin is. Which makes the animal connection more interesting. There's a wolf, a dog, the Gambian rat, and a ferret. I should definitely have some Norse deities ask about that.


                  Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                  What you can do instead is make having a higher Legend increase how well you are known (rather than the other way around) and have mortals start spontaneously learning of these modern myths.
                  The vague idea I had was that Odin and Heimdall would note these incidents and that somehow translate it into Legend increase. Perhaps Odin goes on trips specifically to spread the tales to increase Jaime's legend in ways that won't cause consequences to fall upon her. But your solution also sounds doable.

                  Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                  How much time and effort have their Divine Parents put into these Scions? This sort of depends on how common Scions are in your setting, but if Scions are rare, these kiddos are a Big Investment and the Divine may interject here and there. While, you can't do this all the time least all tension vanish from a story, the Gods, unless occupied by something else really important, will want to save their kids. Especially the Norse. Especially-especially-especially the Norse.
                  Good points. Off-hand, I wanted to avoid Riordan's take which was to have scions everywhere to the point where they could form battalions, but wanted to avoid having the Band be the only Heroes wandering around. I have plans to create a rival Band and then, eventually, a newcomers Band which could be apprenticed to the current Band. So, I'd say, perhaps a couple of dozen Scions globally at any point in time.


                  Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                  I, personally, think Titanrealms are unnecessary. Also, they're mythologically problematic. For example, Atlas is just imprisoned at the edge of the world. No special place, just past Oceanus, where Helios, and Eos live as well. I just listed them there since a lot of people prefer them. You can just say Jomungard is resting at the bottom of the ocean of... Jotunheim? I can't remember where Thor fishes him up.

                  No worries man, I've never see this post before, sorry no one had responded sooner. Just holler if you need anything else.
                  I think that was in Midgard actually. Regardless, I think I'll just ditch the Titanrealms then, and focus on having the -Heims be the hostile and strange lands for the Scions to visit. That's something else I'm going to have to work out eventually: supernatural travel. Again, this is an area I've only perused in the core books, but I had a vague idea that an individual could use portals to step onto Yggdrasil, and they could travel thousands of miles in a fraction of the walk/climb it would take on the World Tree. Technically, one could eventually walk from Asgard to Jotunheim to Alfheim, but traveling across the tree is just much faster. The only exception is Midgard, which is physically cut off from the other worlds, so you would have to use the portals to leave the human realm to get to someplace more exotic. The idea is that is the 'wall' that protects Midgard from daily Jotunn raids, unlike Asgard which has a physical wall.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by simison View Post
                    If there's one thing I've learned in my research is just how much of a gray character Odin is. Which makes the animal connection more interesting. There's a wolf, a dog, the Gambian rat, and a ferret. I should definitely have some Norse deities ask about that.
                    A wolf especially should raise a lot of concern. Three of the Big Antagonists of the Norse are Wolves. Four if you count Gram. If you houserule the Creature rules at Demigod (RAW Creatures sort of become more liabilities than actual helpful creatures around Legend 5. At God, they are normally flat out incapable of being direct help. The RAW Birthright system is sort of plagued with these issues) and have the Wolf continue to grow in power, it would likely raise a tremendous amount of concern.

                    Norse Wolves also seem to be (I have not done any reading in this specific area, but, just at a glance) deeply rooted with ideas of Consumption. Fenrir will eat Odin, Hadi and Skoll will eat Mani and Sol, and Odin's two wolves are The Ravenous One, and The Greedy One. The PC's wolf could probably really easily develop a Fate like this, consuming entities.

                    Originally posted by simison View Post
                    The vague idea I had was that Odin and Heimdall would note these incidents and that somehow translate it into Legend increase. Perhaps Odin goes on trips specifically to spread the tales to increase Jaime's legend in ways that won't cause consequences to fall upon her. But your solution also sounds doable.
                    See, the only issue with that one is then Odin could just make up things and try to pump Scions Legends that way. He has Ultimate Manipulation, Mortals will believe anything he says. You could rule that Fate is the actual 'audience' instead of mortals or Deities. That's sort of how we run it. Fate observes, and those that tie themselves more deeply into the story, and become characters dancing on the strings of Wyrd (in the Norse case), their Legend increases.

                    Originally posted by simison View Post
                    Good points. Off-hand, I wanted to avoid Riordan's take which was to have scions everywhere to the point where they could form battalions, but wanted to avoid having the Band be the only Heroes wandering around. I have plans to create a rival Band and then, eventually, a newcomers Band which could be apprenticed to the current Band. So, I'd say, perhaps a couple of dozen Scions globally at any point in time.
                    Rival Bands can be fun. Might be a bit tricky in a Norse Only world though, since they will inevitably all have Loyalty (unless you have houserules for Virtues) to each other, and the PC Band as well. You could get some really good 'friendly competition' sort of stuff though. Outright antagonism could prove difficult, but, if someone does kill someone else, their Divine Parent has the right to invoke weregild, which can be a fun story. However, the killer'd get the nasty brand of 'kinslayer' which is a really big deal.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                      The PC's wolf could probably really easily develop a Fate like this, consuming entities.
                      Ooo, that could be great character moment, learning that Fate wants to twist his companion into something malevolent.

                      Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                      See, the only issue with that one is then Odin could just make up things and try to pump Scions Legends that way. He has Ultimate Manipulation, Mortals will believe anything he says. You could rule that Fate is the actual 'audience' instead of mortals or Deities. That's sort of how we run it. Fate observes, and those that tie themselves more deeply into the story, and become characters dancing on the strings of Wyrd (in the Norse case), their Legend increases.
                      Ah, fair points. Yeah, in that case, I'll simply go with it's Fate observing, recording, and eventually divulging. With the amount of prophecy and magic going around, it'd be pretty easy to explain how a couple of Jamie's more magically-sensitive followers could divine her past heroics despite the secrecy.

                      Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                      Rival Bands can be fun. Might be a bit tricky in a Norse Only world though, since they will inevitably all have Loyalty (unless you have houserules for Virtues) to each other, and the PC Band as well. You could get some really good 'friendly competition' sort of stuff though. Outright antagonism could prove difficult, but, if someone does kill someone else, their Divine Parent has the right to invoke weregild, which can be a fun story. However, the killer'd get the nasty brand of 'kinslayer' which is a really big deal.
                      I've really got to start adding the Virtue system to my calculations. Off-hand, I hadn't thought much of where the rivalry was going to fall on the spectrum between 'friendly' and 'malicious', but I knew envy and disgust was going to play a role between a few of the scions.

                      Originally, I was going to have a Scion of Heimdall rival against Jamie, the Scion of Loki, but with the new player choosing Heimdall, I need to choose another deity instead.

                      For Katya, Scion of Hel, I was debating one of the fertility deities and have settled on Sif. The primary antagonism is that Sif's Scion finds Katya's connection to the dead distressing and disgusting.

                      For Lad, Scion of Baldur, I thought a daughter of Frigg would be fitting since Frigg requires all her scions to swear to protect Baldur. I thought about adding a personal touch that Frigg's scion is plain, while Lad is handsome, so there's some sexual tension sprinkled on top of the resentment.

                      For Vjun, Scion of Vidar, I'm thinking either a Scion of Forseti or Tyr, either representing a more cleaner version of justice compared to Vidar's hunt for vengeance. Given Vjun is a loner who prefers the solitude of the forest over mankind (something Vidar is disappointed about), I wanted to make his rival the leader of the rival Band and a social butterfly.

                      That leaves Jaime and the two new scions. My first impulse was to have a Scion of Thor to rival Jaime, someone who deplores Jaime's underhanded tactics.

                      I don't know who would rival Heimdall's scion. One impulse was to bring in Sly from the core rulebooks. Leithe, the Scion of Freya, I hadn't had any thoughts about. ...nope, I'm honestly not sure who's left to face off against her. I suppose Hodr would be an interesting choice since Leithe is the team healer and Hoder is the deity of blind battle-rage.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by simison View Post
                        I've really got to start adding the Virtue system to my calculations. Off-hand, I hadn't thought much of where the rivalry was going to fall on the spectrum between 'friendly' and 'malicious', but I knew envy and disgust was going to play a role between a few of the scions.
                        Virtues are really tricky a lot of the time. In our houserules, we actually allow Scions to swap one of their Virtues for any other Virtue. Our thought process is that a lot of Deities totally don't have all four of their Pantheon's Virtues. For example, Odin has Ambition (we don't use Dark Virtues as Titan corruption, as the Dark Virtue system, and Always-Evil Titans is sort of problematic), and Tezcatlipoca may have Malice but it's almost impossible to get a read on him.

                        But, sticking with the four Virtue system, you should totally keep Virtues in mind for most Pantheon's actions. They're a handy way to sort of gently work out how they would act without spending all the time reading into legal systems of the cultures, social roles, and the like.

                        Originally posted by simison View Post
                        For Lad, Scion of Baldur, I thought a daughter of Frigg would be fitting since Frigg requires all her scions to swear to protect Baldur. I thought about adding a personal touch that Frigg's scion is plain, while Lad is handsome, so there's some sexual tension sprinkled on top of the resentment.
                        That actually is an interesting little twist there at the end. The Aesir are super against incest, while on the other hand, the Vanir are not only cool with it, but it's a normal system of their divine tribe. The Aesir put a stop to that with their captives though, separate Njord from his sister-wife, and (probably, this is speculative and not mythologically cannon) preventing Freyr and Freya from getting married. You could do something interesting there, since if the Scion of Frigg is lusting after her nephew, Lad, there's this whole angle of social revulsion, that the Vanir may actually try to encourage (especially Njord and Freya) to spite the Aesir. If a daughter of Frigg and a son of Baldur were caught in such a relationship, there'd be a political clusterfuck where the Aesir either have to levy punishments, or allow it to carry on and give the Vanir members the capacity to return to their previous practices.

                        Also, other random thing I remembered that makes the Freya = Frigg thing tricky. Freya and Freyr are children when she comes to Asgard after the war IIRC. But, at the same time, Norse chronology is a utter pain and inconsistent.

                        Originally posted by simison View Post
                        For Vjun, Scion of Vidar, I'm thinking either a Scion of Forseti or Tyr, either representing a more cleaner version of justice compared to Vidar's hunt for vengeance. Given Vjun is a loner who prefers the solitude of the forest over mankind (something Vidar is disappointed about), I wanted to make his rival the leader of the rival Band and a social butterfly.
                        Oh! Another thing! Right, so, I was talking about how the Norse got Issues with wild animals? Forests are also problematic. Wild places outside the realm of human control. A conflict between Human (and Divine) against Nature is a big 'thing' with Norse mythology and culture IIRC.

                        But, with Forseti or Tyr's Scions as antagonists. That could work, sure. The Norse did actually have a interesting bit of their legal system that is a branch between these two practices interestingly. The Weregild (Man-Price I think?) is a term for a payment in return for the killing, or otherwise harming of a family member. On this side, we can see the opposite of Vidar's system, Vengeance is controlled and moderated. But, if a Weregild is not paid, then you can just kill the other person, sometimes members of their family too I think. And, that bit is very much in the realm of Vidar. You could do something interesting based off that maybe.

                        Originally posted by simison View Post
                        That leaves Jaime and the two new scions. My first impulse was to have a Scion of Thor to rival Jaime, someone who deplores Jaime's underhanded tactics.
                        Now, Scions don't have to mirror their parents, not at all. In fact, some of the most interesting Scions I have seen reject (or are rejected by) their parents. But, I get the feeling you have been playing with this idea of Like Mother Like Daughter with this antag Band. If that's the case, don't use Thor as a fair fighter. Thor is not, at all. Thor's a lot like a roving murderer a lot of the time. He's going around killing Giants, but we know that not all Giants are evil (his own mother is a Giant, for example. Skadi is a Frost Giant and a member of the Pantheon. Loki's a Giant, and a staunch friend of Thor's) which makes this slightly problematic. On top of that, Thor brutally breaks the rules of hospitality during the whole 'Thor's in a dress pretending to be Freya to get his hammer back' myth. That sort of passes as a 'oh haha look at Thor', but actually man, breaking hospitality is a super big deal.

                        If you want a fair fighter or the like, go with Forseti or Tyr again. Maybe check out the ritual legal combat the Norse used, that could be interesting inspiration.

                        Originally posted by simison View Post
                        I don't know who would rival Heimdall's scion. One impulse was to bring in Sly from the core rulebooks.
                        Hm. You could just use any old Scion actually, but have them be someone who has picked up Sun and have them be exceptionally panic-y about the Scion of Heimdall using Darkness. Hadi and Skoll are two big-ol' Darkness personifications, and there is no actual good Darkness entities in the Norse system. (Hod may have Darkness, but he isn't a Darkness God. It'd just be a proponent of him being a blind God. Sort of like someone having Fire for Hearth style stuff.) So, seeing someone using Darkness may set them off being suspicious. Especially since this Darkness Scion is, Gasp! Hanging out with someone who has a wolf. Bad portents indeed.

                        Originally posted by simison View Post
                        Leithe, the Scion of Freya, I hadn't had any thoughts about. ...nope, I'm honestly not sure who's left to face off against her. I suppose Hodr would be an interesting choice since Leithe is the team healer and Hoder is the deity of blind battle-rage.
                        Poor Hod. Baldur steals his blind brother's girlfriend and runs off with her, leaving Hod to sit alone, blind, not being able to contribute to his martial society. Always feel compelled to point that out, that Baldur's a bit of an ass despite what his Epic Charisma'll tell you.

                        Instead of having someone opposed on thematic stuff, you could just have another healer who wants to out due the Scion of Freya. The resident Plague Deity is Hel though, and you could add another Scion of Hel and have them doing the whole sickness thing.

                        I think both of your Magic people (and I don't think you have anyone with Prophecy) are women, but if you are looking for strife causing things, keep in mind that Magic and Prophecy are both womenly magics that is super-duper socially bad if a male practices. Just like with his wild animals, this is another way Odin is running around being a transient figure. Furthermore, I don't know if any of the PCs are gay, but the Norse have a whole thing about that, which can make interesting strife between Divine Parents and Scions.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Watcher View Post


                          That actually is an interesting little twist there at the end. The Aesir are super against incest, while on the other hand, the Vanir are not only cool with it, but it's a normal system of their divine tribe. The Aesir put a stop to that with their captives though, separate Njord from his sister-wife, and (probably, this is speculative and not mythologically cannon) preventing Freyr and Freya from getting married. You could do something interesting there, since if the Scion of Frigg is lusting after her nephew, Lad, there's this whole angle of social revulsion, that the Vanir may actually try to encourage (especially Njord and Freya) to spite the Aesir. If a daughter of Frigg and a son of Baldur were caught in such a relationship, there'd be a political clusterfuck where the Aesir either have to levy punishments, or allow it to carry on and give the Vanir members the capacity to return to their previous practices.

                          Also, other random thing I remembered that makes the Freya = Frigg thing tricky. Freya and Freyr are children when she comes to Asgard after the war IIRC. But, at the same time, Norse chronology is a utter pain and inconsistent.
                          I'm not doing the Freya = Frigg thing in this game. Might do it in a different game. Do agree that the Norse mythology timeline is wacky.

                          Now, I thought the ban against incest was only against the same members of what we call the nuclear family. Do the Norse not even allow for cousin marriage?


                          Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                          Oh! Another thing! Right, so, I was talking about how the Norse got Issues with wild animals? Forests are also problematic. Wild places outside the realm of human control. A conflict between Human (and Divine) against Nature is a big 'thing' with Norse mythology and culture IIRC.
                          Good grief, my Band is turning out to be a bunch of oddballs from both mortal and Norse perspectives. This should be interesting.

                          Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                          But, with Forseti or Tyr's Scions as antagonists. That could work, sure. The Norse did actually have a interesting bit of their legal system that is a branch between these two practices interestingly. The Weregild (Man-Price I think?) is a term for a payment in return for the killing, or otherwise harming of a family member. On this side, we can see the opposite of Vidar's system, Vengeance is controlled and moderated. But, if a Weregild is not paid, then you can just kill the other person, sometimes members of their family too I think. And, that bit is very much in the realm of Vidar. You could do something interesting based off that maybe.
                          Indeed! I'll keep that in mind. One idea you've given me is that the Norse gods are much more active in their scions' lives compared to the Greeks.Maybe I'll arrange for Norse culture lessons throughout the campaign to bring the Band up to speed.

                          Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                          Now, Scions don't have to mirror their parents, not at all. In fact, some of the most interesting Scions I have seen reject (or are rejected by) their parents. But, I get the feeling you have been playing with this idea of Like Mother Like Daughter with this antag Band. If that's the case, don't use Thor as a fair fighter. Thor is not, at all. Thor's a lot like a roving murderer a lot of the time. He's going around killing Giants, but we know that not all Giants are evil (his own mother is a Giant, for example. Skadi is a Frost Giant and a member of the Pantheon. Loki's a Giant, and a staunch friend of Thor's) which makes this slightly problematic. On top of that, Thor brutally breaks the rules of hospitality during the whole 'Thor's in a dress pretending to be Freya to get his hammer back' myth. That sort of passes as a 'oh haha look at Thor', but actually man, breaking hospitality is a super big deal.

                          If you want a fair fighter or the like, go with Forseti or Tyr again. Maybe check out the ritual legal combat the Norse used, that could be interesting inspiration.
                          That's true. We do know that if twins grow up apart, they end up like each other, but if they grow up together, they end up opposites. I think I'll play around with that concept here. Everyone starts out, mirroring their divine parent pre-Vistation. But, afterwards, now armed with that knowledge, they can choose to follow their parents' footsteps. I do plan on the PC Band having a large impact on the direction of the rival Band.

                          Wasn't that giant guilty of theft and breaking & entering in the first place? Still, I'll consider Thor or Tyr then. If a Scion of Thor, then maybe one that highlights his positive attributes. Perhaps the canon Scion of Thor from the rulebooks.

                          Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                          Hm. You could just use any old Scion actually, but have them be someone who has picked up Sun and have them be exceptionally panic-y about the Scion of Heimdall using Darkness. Hadi and Skoll are two big-ol' Darkness personifications, and there is no actual good Darkness entities in the Norse system. (Hod may have Darkness, but he isn't a Darkness God. It'd just be a proponent of him being a blind God. Sort of like someone having Fire for Hearth style stuff.) So, seeing someone using Darkness may set them off being suspicious. Especially since this Darkness Scion is, Gasp! Hanging out with someone who has a wolf. Bad portents indeed.
                          This has got me thinking, how do I explain all of the odd birthrights being given by the Norse deities who should know better? My first thought was to have the gifts be some kind of test. One example would be Baldur testing Lad's luck by giving him a wolf or by setting up a long-term lesson that the wolves can't be trusted. Another idea was that the Norns or Fate were forcing the Norse to give these socially-ill gifts.


                          Originally posted by Watcher View Post
                          Poor Hod. Baldur steals his blind brother's girlfriend and runs off with her, leaving Hod to sit alone, blind, not being able to contribute to his martial society. Always feel compelled to point that out, that Baldur's a bit of an ass despite what his Epic Charisma'll tell you.

                          Instead of having someone opposed on thematic stuff, you could just have another healer who wants to out due the Scion of Freya. The resident Plague Deity is Hel though, and you could add another Scion of Hel and have them doing the whole sickness thing.

                          I think both of your Magic people (and I don't think you have anyone with Prophecy) are women, but if you are looking for strife causing things, keep in mind that Magic and Prophecy are both womenly magics that is super-duper socially bad if a male practices. Just like with his wild animals, this is another way Odin is running around being a transient figure. Furthermore, I don't know if any of the PCs are gay, but the Norse have a whole thing about that, which can make interesting strife between Divine Parents and Scions.
                          Wasn't that only in one version though?

                          That's a good idea, have someone try to one-up their rival as oppose to being opposing in theme.

                          I did learn during my research rampage that magic, seidr in particular, is for women only. And, I doubt homosexuality will come up in the game, but I'll keep that in mind, too.

                          Another big running concept I'm going to have affecting the Band is Ragnorak. I'm allowing it to occur whether or not they're Heroes, Demigods, or outright Gods. What triggers it are failures on the part of the Band to keep the Devourers (catch-all term for the three kinds of giants, the monsters, and the Svart-Alfs) in check. Basically, if I count up three failures at any point, I'm going to trigger the Ragnorak sequence. Baldur could die, but the Fimbulwinter will happen regardless, and will last three years. I figure that's enough time to allow the Heroes become Demigods so that they're throwing around some kind of strength during the final sequence.
                          Last edited by simison; 07-02-2016, 08:19 AM.

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                          • #14
                            We didn't have a session this week because my wife was in the hospital and, suffice to say, my focus was dead. Thankfully, she's doing better and will be back next week.

                            The next session is still devoted to introducing the two new Scions: Leithe, (Scion of Freya) & Elias (Scion of Heimdall).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by simison View Post
                              Now, I thought the ban against incest was only against the same members of what we call the nuclear family. Do the Norse not even allow for cousin marriage?
                              They wouldn't be cousins. She, being Frigg's daughter, is Baldur's brother. So, the Scion of Frigg is the Scion of Baldur's aunt. Now, cousin marriages tend not to be super big deals in the ancient world, but I can't find any mention of Nephew - Aunt. You would need to sort of extrapolate based off existing information I think. As we know the Aesir have issues with the Vanir system of marriage, and none of the Aesir are married to another member of the Aesir (if you notice, Odin's line always marries out, to Alfs, Vanir, or Giants. Never internally as far as I remember) I'd probably say it would cause a big ruckus inside the Pantheon.

                              Originally posted by simison View Post
                              Good grief, my Band is turning out to be a bunch of oddballs from both mortal and Norse perspectives. This should be interesting.
                              This sort of thing's actually one of my favorite themes to play with in Scion. Divergence and disagreements between the Scions and their ancestors. You could have a lot of fun with it.

                              Originally posted by simison View Post
                              Indeed! I'll keep that in mind. One idea you've given me is that the Norse gods are much more active in their scions' lives compared to the Greeks.Maybe I'll arrange for Norse culture lessons throughout the campaign to bring the Band up to speed.
                              Yeah, the Theoi are... paradoxically withdrawn, but ever-present which is a weird thing to say. For example, Theoi Scions probably have eyes kept on them by Helios, Apollo, Artemis, or others. While, at the same time, the Theoi are almost never going to interject. Mostly because Theoi Scions... tend to make the Divine annoyed with them, and die as a consequence.

                              Originally posted by simison View Post
                              Wasn't that giant guilty of theft and breaking & entering in the first place? Still, I'll consider Thor or Tyr then. If a Scion of Thor, then maybe one that highlights his positive attributes. Perhaps the canon Scion of Thor from the rulebooks.
                              Yup! Thrym steals Mjolnir from Asgard (through an undisclosed method. A big task with Heimdall up there) but Norse hospitality is very important. Even though Thrym is a thief, he had invited Loki, and Thor (disguised as a handmaiden and Freya) giving them food and drink. They were bound under hospitality. Even though Thrym was a thief, hospitality overrides this. Thrym must treat his guests exceptionally well, and his guests must in turn do the same. Thor breaks hospitality by killing his host and his host's family (presumably they were his family as it was a wedding feast) which is an exceptionally bad thing. Hospitality is why Loki could stroll into Odin's hall after tricking Hod into killing Baldur, insult everyone, and leave unharmed.

                              It's sort of hard to grasp modernly, but hospitality is pretty important in many ancient cultures since without it, diplomacy is almost impossible. If there was a chance you could be killed during a meeting, marriage, or other sort of peace-brokering deal, especially in a martial society, people would be very hesitent ever to do such things. Hospitality taboos gave a sort of social guarantee of safety to allow diplomacy and peace.

                              Due to this, violating hospitality, even if your host or guest murdered your most beloved son/brother (in the case of Baldur), is exceptionally dangerous. If someone violates it, then everyone will doubt any meeting with that person again. It essentially blacklists you from ever having any diplomatic relationship with anyone outside your immediate family, and even then, your family may suffer on behalf of you violating it. So, Thor breaking hospitality is a really shitty thing. In a many-Pantheon game, for example, I would have the Tuatha, Theoi, and Bogovi (the closest Pantheons written geographically all happen to have big hospitality rules) all incredibly cautious of any sort of inviting Thor to a hospitality-bound situation. His sons, and daughter I'd actually extend this black mark onto.

                              Originally posted by simison View Post
                              This has got me thinking, how do I explain all of the odd birthrights being given by the Norse deities who should know better? My first thought was to have the gifts be some kind of test. One example would be Baldur testing Lad's luck by giving him a wolf or by setting up a long-term lesson that the wolves can't be trusted. Another idea was that the Norns or Fate were forcing the Norse to give these socially-ill gifts.
                              It is sort of tricky. If it's been established that the Norse Gods gave these gifts personally, maybe make them tests. If they were given these through intermediaries, I'd have the animals slipped in by the Vanir. Either the three captives, or the rest living off in Vanaheim, trying to stir disruption in the Aesir. But, that's just me who prefers Pantheon-War and Pantheon Civil-Wars as stories rather than Titan Wars.

                              Originally posted by simison View Post
                              Wasn't that only in one version though?
                              Sort of. I believe the Prose Edda never actually establishes how Baldur and Nanna met, while the Gesta Danorum humanizes the deities involved, but explains how they met. Both can exist at the same time without even needing any of the 'even contradictory things are true' stuff. Since it's pretty much the only source we have for Hod being an independent actor, I tend to prefer to use it rather than discount all the things he did in the story.

                              Originally posted by simison View Post
                              Another big running concept I'm going to have affecting the Band is Ragnorak. I'm allowing it to occur whether or not they're Heroes, Demigods, or outright Gods. What triggers it are failures on the part of the Band to keep the Devourers (catch-all term for the three kinds of giants, the monsters, and the Svart-Alfs) in check. Basically, if I count up three failures at any point, I'm going to trigger the Ragnorak sequence. Baldur could die, but the Fimbulwinter will happen regardless, and will last three years. I figure that's enough time to allow the Heroes become Demigods so that they're throwing around some kind of strength during the final sequence.
                              If you want to do Ragnarok, my biggest piece of advise is for you to get a timeline of events. For example, work out what point Loki is fated to betray everyone (and, keep in mind, as a Prophecy it can be a bit weird. For example, Loki who tricks Hod may not be Loki-Loki. Up to that point, Loki has been the most loyal member of the Pantheon pretty much, way more than Odin in the least. Such a sudden swap into maliciousness is crazy. But... there is another Loki who isn't keen on the Aesir. It could be Utgard-Loki if you want to surprise your players.) and work out the details of different events beforehand. Maybe have the players instructed to help find Loki when he runs off and hides, or have them present for his binding.

                              Hope your wife is doing alright!

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