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  • #46
    Originally posted by Watcher View Post

    Dian Cecht is a rather interesting figure, one of the most important members of the tribe according to the Tuatha themselves, but we don't really see a whole lot of him being amazing. Generally, we have three myths about Dian Cecht, not counting small regional place-name stories since there is always a mountain of those.

    The first time we see Dian Cecht is the scene you mentioned where Nuada loses his hand to Sreng of the Mighty Blows, the champion of the Fir Bolg during the invasion of Ireland. Dian Cecht is described as being able to heal any wound except wounds of the brain, and wounds that hewed marrow. Nuada's missing hand falls into the second section, the hand cleaved off obviously cut through the bone, and thus it is outside the realm of Dian Cecht's skills as a physician. Nuada's hand does get replaced by his son Miach who uses a poem to regenerate the hand which infuriates Dian Cecht, leading him to murder his own son. There is some suspicion that this story is a far later medieval addition to the earlier medieval story since it makes pretty much zero sense, and seems to just to form some kind of symmetry with the rest of the text. Miach is a cool guy, he and his sister Airmed are awesome healers. As children they replace a man's eye with the eye of a cat after he had gone blind with a nip of surgery.

    The second time we see Dian Cecht is what tells us how powerful he is. Dian Cecht is brought in on the war councils against the Fomorians, and during the pitched battle between the Tuatha and the Fomorians, Dian Cecht is noted as being one of the two figures who are causing the victory of the Tuatha (the other being Goibniu the smith, one of the most powerful and important of the Pantheon) as he is preforming some pretty amazing magic. He has had several pools of water dug, and filled them with herbs. He is having the dead and dying Tuatha brought to him, tossing them into the water, and pulling them out, resurrected, and ready to continue the fight. The Fomorians rate Dian Cecht bringing back all of the Tuatha dead, and Goibniu forging an infinite amount of 100% accurate and 100% lethal spears to be their main problems. (They try to assassinate Goibniu for this but fail) This is the big instance of Dian Cecht showing off how powerful he is, really important bit, without him the Pantheon would have fallen.

    The third myth we see him in is a bit different. One of The Morrigu (I can't remember if the story is super clear who it is) is pregnant, and Dian Cecht works out that the kid has three snakes in his heart which will eat all of Ireland. So Dian Cecht carves the infant's heart out, kills the three serpents, and throws the corpses into a river causing the water to rage and boil with the venom. It's a smaller myth, it's actually from one of those place-name stories explaining the river, but it's interesting so I included it. I tend to hold this one against him since he is capable of bringing the dead back to life, but doesn't seem to care to try for the little kiddo. Just carves out his heart and leaves him dead.

    So, yeah. He totally does heal people, he can heal people from death. He just can't do cut marrow, or damage to the brain. Which, honestly, make sense for the early Irish. Those sorts of wounds would be the really bad ones that they would know are borderline impossible to heal. There's also some musing that the brain-cutting has something to do with the Head Cult, but it's sort of up in the air since we don't know what the whole headhunting thing was about in the first place. Very important guy though, he and Goibniu are probably the most important Tuatha in a war. The two of them are the big powerhouses if the Pantheon ever has to go to war against someone else. Sadly, both are dead! Plague got the pair of them.
    Thank you.

    Comment


    • #47
      Happy to help! Just shout if you have any other questions, I always love helping people approach mythology.


      Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
      The Šiuneš, The Enduri, The Sgā’na Qeda’s, The Abosom, Lebor Óe In Dea, The Zemi, Nemetondevos: Revised, and Mysteries of the Otherworld.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Watcher View Post
        Happy to help! Just shout if you have any other questions, I always love helping people approach mythology.
        Okay, If it insnt too much trouble,what you can tell me about Esus? One of my favorite books hás a character based on him but i can find very little-wolfy.tumblr.com about him. I know hes partem of a tríad. That people worshipped him by flailing others and that he is show as a Woodsman. Is there anythings else?

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
          Okay, If it insnt too much trouble,what you can tell me about Esus? One of my favorite books hás a character based on him but i can find very little-wolfy.tumblr.com about him. I know hes partem of a tríad. That people worshipped him by flailing others and that he is show as a Woodsman. Is there anythings else?
          Ah, the Gauls. My eternal side-project. Okay, so.

          Esus is a God from Gaul. Not all of Gaul, somewhere in Gaul. There was no unified Gaulish Pantheon (there probably was no Irish one either, but that's a whole long story) instead there were regional Deities, and a few suspected 'Big' Deities who had a wide range of influence. Cernunnos is the big one of these, we just have depictions of him all across continental Europe. Esus is a semi-regional figure. There are decent amount of inscriptions of his name, but sadly the exact numbers are out of my hands for the moment. My book on the Gauls is currently taped up in a box, moving tomorrow. I can get the exact numbers in a few days though.

          Anyways, so, right. Esus, not a huge, massively widely ranged entity like Cernunnos, but still fairly 'big' for a Gaulish figure. There is a fair amount of arguments over just who he is though. I can enlighten a few details though, and get into some of the theories of who he is.

          He probably ins't part of a triad, the flaying is unlikely, but the woodsman thing is very likely. The big problem we have with the Gaulish religion is that all of our written sources are from the Romans, and they are lying out of their teeth, or just not understanding things. The triad suggestion comes from Lucan who claims Teutates, Esus, and Taranis are part of a trinity of sorts. After a lot of academic poking, and archeological work, we worked out that this was toss. Taranis is super obscure and very-very rarely attested. His name is only mentioned seven times, ever, in all inscriptions. Teutates is suspected of not even being a Deity, but a 'class' of Deities. Teutates means 'Tribe God' literally which people thought meant he was a God of civilization, but the more accurate translation would be '[The] Tribe['s] God," and is talking about your local Deity. Not a big God of all Tribes, but your own local figure who is your tribe's patron. We have a ton of these guys all across Gaul, from Albiorix to Toutiorix. Teutates as a name is only inscribed once, so the running theory is that Lucian lost something in translation. Lastly, Lucian, who claims this triad, is claiming that they are the three main Gods of all Gaul, and they relate to Mars, Jupiter, and Mercury. This is probably the case of him hearing things third hand, misunderstanding things, or making things up. The degree to which he discusses the human sacrifices really pushes it into the realm of "Probably a Hatchet Job," casting the Gauls as barbaric to justify the conquest. While there were, of course, human sacrifices (everyone does it at one point more or less) we don't have a ton of archeological record for it. It's more likely that item and animal sacrifice were far more important to the Gauls.*

          So, back to Esus. He probably wasn't part of a trinity, but was probably fairly important. But, who was he? The leading argument I support is that he has another name, Lug. Caesar clams that Mercury is the chief God of the Gauls, which then ties back with the suggestion that one of the three members of Lucian's trinity has something to with Mercury. Since Taranis = Jupiter (name connection to the idea of storms), and Teutates = Mars (as a nationalistic, civic figure since Lucian was messing up Teutates for a Who when they are a What), then Lucian's Esus = Mercury. Caesar's Mercury is the inventor of all arts, which ties back in with the Irish Lugh's claim of being the master of all arts (more accurately I would say 'Professions'). This angle as a God of Crafts links into the one depiction we have on Esus, on the Pillar of the Boatman IIRC, of him hewing trees with an axe.

          So, the theory goes that Esus and Lug are the same person. This would further be supported by the connections we can see between the Irish Lugh and Esus. Esus' name has an interesting derived word, Esugenus, meaning 'Begotten of Esus' which is a name for the local ruling class of Chieftians. So, there is a connection between Esus and the notion of Chieftians, and Lugh has his whole Kingship angle going on with him over in Ireland. This also helps explain why Lug is really obscure a figure, barely ever mentioned except by Caesar. If Esus = Lug then Caesar claiming this really minor-obscure figure is very important and widespread makes a bit more sense.

          In sum. Esus probably = Lug. They get the name Esus-Lug in Academia due to this. Esus-Lug is a Craftsman God, which ties in with his forestry and cutting down trees. Either to clear land to farm, or to use the wood for carpentry (barrel construction is big in Gaul and Ireland), or possibly both. Both work in the idea of Esus-Lug that we can work out. Ontop of this, Esus-Lug has something to do with rule, or authority as the noble classes claimed some sort of literal, or metaphoric descent from him.

          If you want to learn more about the Gauls, I highly suggest Celtic Gods and Heroes by Marie-Louise Sjoestedt. It is a collection of her papers and lectures, she was a young, promising French Academic in the field, but sadly died very young. I loved reading her work, utterly great. It's a bit old, but, the field of Gaulish Religious Practices is a bit Glacial. It's one of the most enjoyable things I have read, utterly loved it.

          * A mention about the Gaulish Sacrifices. So, Sacrifices look super-important for the Gauls, right? Tons of sacrificed items, and animals in Gaul. Problem is that this doesn't mean that it was actually a big deal. All we have left are archeological findings, and sacrifices leave archeological record. Maybe the Gauls had complex poetry-prayers, or special trees, or dances, or songs, self-mutilation, anything. So many religious practices leave no archeological record, most of them don't really, so we can't conclude that Sacrifice was important to the Gauls because of this. They did it, yes, of course! But, was it important? We can't know. Maybe it was just a little side thing like lighting candles in a Catholic church.


          Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
          The Šiuneš, The Enduri, The Sgā’na Qeda’s, The Abosom, Lebor Óe In Dea, The Zemi, Nemetondevos: Revised, and Mysteries of the Otherworld.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Watcher View Post

            Ah, the Gauls. My eternal side-project. Okay, so.

            Esus is a God from Gaul. Not all of Gaul, somewhere in Gaul. There was no unified Gaulish Pantheon (there probably was no Irish one either, but that's a whole long story) instead there were regional Deities, and a few suspected 'Big' Deities who had a wide range of influence. Cernunnos is the big one of these, we just have depictions of him all across continental Europe. Esus is a semi-regional figure. There are decent amount of inscriptions of his name, but sadly the exact numbers are out of my hands for the moment. My book on the Gauls is currently taped up in a box, moving tomorrow. I can get the exact numbers in a few days though.

            Anyways, so, right. Esus, not a huge, massively widely ranged entity like Cernunnos, but still fairly 'big' for a Gaulish figure. There is a fair amount of arguments over just who he is though. I can enlighten a few details though, and get into some of the theories of who he is.

            He probably ins't part of a triad, the flaying is unlikely, but the woodsman thing is very likely. The big problem we have with the Gaulish religion is that all of our written sources are from the Romans, and they are lying out of their teeth, or just not understanding things. The triad suggestion comes from Lucan who claims Teutates, Esus, and Taranis are part of a trinity of sorts. After a lot of academic poking, and archeological work, we worked out that this was toss. Taranis is super obscure and very-very rarely attested. His name is only mentioned seven times, ever, in all inscriptions. Teutates is suspected of not even being a Deity, but a 'class' of Deities. Teutates means 'Tribe God' literally which people thought meant he was a God of civilization, but the more accurate translation would be '[The] Tribe['s] God," and is talking about your local Deity. Not a big God of all Tribes, but your own local figure who is your tribe's patron. We have a ton of these guys all across Gaul, from Albiorix to Toutiorix. Teutates as a name is only inscribed once, so the running theory is that Lucian lost something in translation. Lastly, Lucian, who claims this triad, is claiming that they are the three main Gods of all Gaul, and they relate to Mars, Jupiter, and Mercury. This is probably the case of him hearing things third hand, misunderstanding things, or making things up. The degree to which he discusses the human sacrifices really pushes it into the realm of "Probably a Hatchet Job," casting the Gauls as barbaric to justify the conquest. While there were, of course, human sacrifices (everyone does it at one point more or less) we don't have a ton of archeological record for it. It's more likely that item and animal sacrifice were far more important to the Gauls.*

            So, back to Esus. He probably wasn't part of a trinity, but was probably fairly important. But, who was he? The leading argument I support is that he has another name, Lug. Caesar clams that Mercury is the chief God of the Gauls, which then ties back with the suggestion that one of the three members of Lucian's trinity has something to with Mercury. Since Taranis = Jupiter (name connection to the idea of storms), and Teutates = Mars (as a nationalistic, civic figure since Lucian was messing up Teutates for a Who when they are a What), then Lucian's Esus = Mercury. Caesar's Mercury is the inventor of all arts, which ties back in with the Irish Lugh's claim of being the master of all arts (more accurately I would say 'Professions'). This angle as a God of Crafts links into the one depiction we have on Esus, on the Pillar of the Boatman IIRC, of him hewing trees with an axe.

            So, the theory goes that Esus and Lug are the same person. This would further be supported by the connections we can see between the Irish Lugh and Esus. Esus' name has an interesting derived word, Esugenus, meaning 'Begotten of Esus' which is a name for the local ruling class of Chieftians. So, there is a connection between Esus and the notion of Chieftians, and Lugh has his whole Kingship angle going on with him over in Ireland. This also helps explain why Lug is really obscure a figure, barely ever mentioned except by Caesar. If Esus = Lug then Caesar claiming this really minor-obscure figure is very important and widespread makes a bit more sense.

            In sum. Esus probably = Lug. They get the name Esus-Lug in Academia due to this. Esus-Lug is a Craftsman God, which ties in with his forestry and cutting down trees. Either to clear land to farm, or to use the wood for carpentry (barrel construction is big in Gaul and Ireland), or possibly both. Both work in the idea of Esus-Lug that we can work out. Ontop of this, Esus-Lug has something to do with rule, or authority as the noble classes claimed some sort of literal, or metaphoric descent from him.

            If you want to learn more about the Gauls, I highly suggest Celtic Gods and Heroes by Marie-Louise Sjoestedt. It is a collection of her papers and lectures, she was a young, promising French Academic in the field, but sadly died very young. I loved reading her work, utterly great. It's a bit old, but, the field of Gaulish Religious Practices is a bit Glacial. It's one of the most enjoyable things I have read, utterly loved it.

            * A mention about the Gaulish Sacrifices. So, Sacrifices look super-important for the Gauls, right? Tons of sacrificed items, and animals in Gaul. Problem is that this doesn't mean that it was actually a big deal. All we have left are archeological findings, and sacrifices leave archeological record. Maybe the Gauls had complex poetry-prayers, or special trees, or dances, or songs, self-mutilation, anything. So many religious practices leave no archeological record, most of them don't really, so we can't conclude that Sacrifice was important to the Gauls because of this. They did it, yes, of course! But, was it important? We can't know. Maybe it was just a little side thing like lighting candles in a Catholic church.
            damn i hope the nemetodevos get s good treatmeant on Scion Second Edition they seem fascinating and cool. oh since you recommended me a book I'll recomend you a book series. it's called Merry Gentry by Laurell Kaye Hamilton. it's all about God's from Europe trying to live their lives and find love. the first two books feature mannan mac lir,esus,nodens;conchenn;crom cruach. the whole gang. but they changed their names so you don't know which character is each god right away.this series is amazing for fans of the Celtic people;it's doubly amazing for someone who likes both the Celtics people and a good romantic tale

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
              damn i hope the nemetodevos get s good treatmeant on Scion Second Edition they seem fascinating and cool. oh since you recommended me a book I'll recomend you a book series. it's called Merry Gentry by Laurell Kaye Hamilton. it's all about God's from Europe trying to live their lives and find love. the first two books feature mannan mac lir,esus,nodens;conchenn;crom cruach. the whole gang. but they changed their names so you don't know which character is each god right away.this series is amazing for fans of the Celtic people;it's doubly amazing for someone who likes both the Celtics people and a good romantic tale
              Oh man, Crom Cruach, my absolute dire weakness. I'll check them out Nicolas, that sounds really neat. Crom Cruach is, like, I adore him. Even if he wasn't real at all, I got just a special part in my heart for him. I also really love puzzles like that, that sounds awesome!

              If you ever want to know anything about the Gauls, I have a ton of notes written on them for my eternal side research project!


              Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
              The Šiuneš, The Enduri, The Sgā’na Qeda’s, The Abosom, Lebor Óe In Dea, The Zemi, Nemetondevos: Revised, and Mysteries of the Otherworld.

              Comment


              • #52
                If you want to get as close to the original Irish myths as can be, try to find copies of Lebor gabála Érenn (The Book of the Taking Of Ireland). It's a tough thing to track down and you're basically guaranteed not to be able to find a reliable digital copy (I think I've invested at least $150 for copies of the whole thing), so be prepared to shell out a fair bit of cash. It's worth noting that these are based on stories that were altered by Christian monks, but they're still the closest we have and you don't risk running in to artistic license later authors added in to the stories.


                Originally posted by Watcher View Post

                Oh man, Crom Cruach, my absolute dire weakness. I'll check them out Nicolas, that sounds really neat. Crom Cruach is, like, I adore him. Even if he wasn't real at all, I got just a special part in my heart for him. I also really love puzzles like that, that sounds awesome!

                If you ever want to know anything about the Gauls, I have a ton of notes written on them for my eternal side research project!
                Fair warning, Merry Gentry is really better called Merry's Vagina Miracles. After the first couple books, it's 90% sexcapades followed by spontaneous magical happenings and limited story. Either Laurell got got lazy, or she got bored and hired a ghost writer and all they were given were loose instructions amounting to sidhe with Merry = spontaneous long dead magic waking up.
                Last edited by BloodiedPorcelain; 08-31-2017, 11:39 AM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Metamorphoses, Ovid. I learned that at school and it was actually the only book I was interested into.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Watcher. I saw on a mythology blog that the Hittite Gods had "Epic tantrums",But the link to their document on that pantheon was dead. Could you point me somewhere i can learn bout them,and tell me if tantrum thing is acccurate? were they like the greeks,cursing everyone?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                      Watcher. I saw on a mythology blog that the Hittite Gods had "Epic tantrums",But the link to their document on that pantheon was dead. Could you point me somewhere i can learn bout them,and tell me if tantrum thing is acccurate? were they like the greeks,cursing everyone?
                      I can totally point you in a direction to read some of their stories! They are a bit... difficult to read however, we don't have many of them, and a lot of the stories we do have suffered physical damage over the millennium, with large swaths of the body of texts just missing. The stories on their 'Tantrums' are pretty approachable though. You can find a really great collection of their myths in Hittite Myths by Harry A. Hoffner Jr. I used the 2nd edition according to my notes. Digital copies of it are floating around the internet at a glance, but it's most certainly not in public domain, so I'm not totally sure what's going on there.

                      But, that text is a really solid core of the Hittite Myths, get your hands on it, and you'll be all good outside of looking at prayers, and some of the more obscure myths.

                      The Tantrum thing is totally accurate, but I think an understatement. They were not like the Greeks, the Greeks are exceptionally friendly compared to the Hittite Gods. The Shiunesh, the Hittite Gods, quite frankly have an issue with rage. When mistreated by humanity, an individual Deity's rage explodes, with Telipinu being so furious he slammed his right shoe onto his left foot, and his left shoe onto his right foot as he stormed out of his temple. When the Shiunesh get mad, they abandon humanity until their rage is physically leached from their body and sealed away in great iron jars beneath the earth, either by mortal magicians or the other Gods.

                      Now, a God abandoning humanity doesn't sound good, but it's particularly bad for the Hittites who saw the presence of their Deities causing whatever features of reality they were the Gods of to work. When a Shiunesh withdraws, it is an extinction level event for humanity, and I am very serious when I say that. When Telipinu, a major Fertility God, is enraged and withdraws, everything breaks. Animals and humans will not feed their children, people starve, animals starve, no one feels any desire to have sex, no children are being born, everyone and everything is dying, and humanity is almost destroyed. Only a quick reaction by the other Shiunesh manage to find, and calm Telipinu to have him return, and with his presence, everything going back to normal. Even the kindest and gentlest of the Shiunesh can just snap to one of these rages, bringing an apocalypse to the mortal world in their absence.

                      These issues of 'presence' even happen when someone is removed unwillingly. The Sun God (Ishantu [Hittite] / Eshtan [Hattic] / Shimige [Hurrian] / Tiwat [Luwian]. It's a long story, the Hittites had state sponsored merging of Deities of conquered peoples. It's very interesting, very different from the Roman method.) is kidnapped twice. Once, the world is plunged into darkness as one may expect, and Telipinu is sent off to go find him and bring him back. The second time reality essentially starts to freeze over, with humans, animals, and Gods all dying in droves as this... 'thing' named Hahhima comes into the world. We don't know how Hahhima is dealt with, the tablet is damaged, but the entire Pantheon was dying in his icy presence since the Sun God's warmth had been stolen away.

                      So, yeah. The Shiunesh have temper tantrums that bring about extinction level events for humanity. The Shiunesh would, in most other Pantheons, probably be considered Titans. The Theoi would likely consider them all Titans of some sort, the Anunna as well (but that's also because they have had... issues in the past. The Hittites tried to capture a statue of Marduk in a sack of Babylon to place it in the temple of Tarhun to show his dominance, but the statue was lost along the way.) just for their big neighbors. They don't have any qualms about bringing about mass death to humanity if they are improperly worshiped, though occasionally they try to prevent each other from snapping too hard. The Netjer and the Shiunesh are totally cool with each other though, both Pantheons helped their mortal kingdoms come to one of history's first major peace accords and complex political alliances.

                      The Shiunesh make an awesome addition to any game that has the Netjer playing a big role in it really. The pact formed between their peoples is massive, and the Hittites loved things like that. If the Netjer were ever in drastic danger, Apep on the brink of victory, Aten, any of their major antagonists, the Shiunesh would arrive in their grand war chariots ready to support their ancient friends. Even... not all since they have one psychopath and some borderline non-sapient, but a large number of Hittite Titans would come to the aid of the Netjer. A Thousand Gods, a good handful of Titans all happy to protect their friends to the south.


                      Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
                      The Šiuneš, The Enduri, The Sgā’na Qeda’s, The Abosom, Lebor Óe In Dea, The Zemi, Nemetondevos: Revised, and Mysteries of the Otherworld.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Watcher View Post

                        I can totally point you in a direction to read some of their stories! They are a bit... difficult to read however, we don't have many of them, and a lot of the stories we do have suffered physical damage over the millennium, with large swaths of the body of texts just missing. The stories on their 'Tantrums' are pretty approachable though. You can find a really great collection of their myths in Hittite Myths by Harry A. Hoffner Jr. I used the 2nd edition according to my notes. Digital copies of it are floating around the internet at a glance, but it's most certainly not in public domain, so I'm not totally sure what's going on there.

                        But, that text is a really solid core of the Hittite Myths, get your hands on it, and you'll be all good outside of looking at prayers, and some of the more obscure myths.

                        The Tantrum thing is totally accurate, but I think an understatement. They were not like the Greeks, the Greeks are exceptionally friendly compared to the Hittite Gods. The Shiunesh, the Hittite Gods, quite frankly have an issue with rage. When mistreated by humanity, an individual Deity's rage explodes, with Telipinu being so furious he slammed his right shoe onto his left foot, and his left shoe onto his right foot as he stormed out of his temple. When the Shiunesh get mad, they abandon humanity until their rage is physically leached from their body and sealed away in great iron jars beneath the earth, either by mortal magicians or the other Gods.

                        Now, a God abandoning humanity doesn't sound good, but it's particularly bad for the Hittites who saw the presence of their Deities causing whatever features of reality they were the Gods of to work. When a Shiunesh withdraws, it is an extinction level event for humanity, and I am very serious when I say that. When Telipinu, a major Fertility God, is enraged and withdraws, everything breaks. Animals and humans will not feed their children, people starve, animals starve, no one feels any desire to have sex, no children are being born, everyone and everything is dying, and humanity is almost destroyed. Only a quick reaction by the other Shiunesh manage to find, and calm Telipinu to have him return, and with his presence, everything going back to normal. Even the kindest and gentlest of the Shiunesh can just snap to one of these rages, bringing an apocalypse to the mortal world in their absence.

                        These issues of 'presence' even happen when someone is removed unwillingly. The Sun God (Ishantu [Hittite] / Eshtan [Hattic] / Shimige [Hurrian] / Tiwat [Luwian]. It's a long story, the Hittites had state sponsored merging of Deities of conquered peoples. It's very interesting, very different from the Roman method.) is kidnapped twice. Once, the world is plunged into darkness as one may expect, and Telipinu is sent off to go find him and bring him back. The second time reality essentially starts to freeze over, with humans, animals, and Gods all dying in droves as this... 'thing' named Hahhima comes into the world. We don't know how Hahhima is dealt with, the tablet is damaged, but the entire Pantheon was dying in his icy presence since the Sun God's warmth had been stolen away.

                        So, yeah. The Shiunesh have temper tantrums that bring about extinction level events for humanity. The Shiunesh would, in most other Pantheons, probably be considered Titans. The Theoi would likely consider them all Titans of some sort, the Anunna as well (but that's also because they have had... issues in the past. The Hittites tried to capture a statue of Marduk in a sack of Babylon to place it in the temple of Tarhun to show his dominance, but the statue was lost along the way.) just for their big neighbors. They don't have any qualms about bringing about mass death to humanity if they are improperly worshiped, though occasionally they try to prevent each other from snapping too hard. The Netjer and the Shiunesh are totally cool with each other though, both Pantheons helped their mortal kingdoms come to one of history's first major peace accords and complex political alliances.

                        The Shiunesh make an awesome addition to any game that has the Netjer playing a big role in it really. The pact formed between their peoples is massive, and the Hittites loved things like that. If the Netjer were ever in drastic danger, Apep on the brink of victory, Aten, any of their major antagonists, the Shiunesh would arrive in their grand war chariots ready to support their ancient friends. Even... not all since they have one psychopath and some borderline non-sapient, but a large number of Hittite Titans would come to the aid of the Netjer. A Thousand Gods, a good handful of Titans all happy to protect their friends to the south.
                        Damn,those guys sound perfect for playing mythender thanks Watcher.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                          Damn,those guys sound perfect for playing mythender thanks Watcher.
                          Happy to help! And they are super interesting. My absolute favorite detail is, while they do have a habit of snapping and nearly killing off all humans, you can totally reason with them. Prayers for the Hittites is a lot like being in court. You present your argument, you present evidence, you explain why you are being unfairly treated, and the Gods confer on this amongst themselves for all prayers. While they are very angry at times, they are also really-really focused on being just, and right in their rules. Sure, the punishment for breaking some rules is borderline extinction, but if you got accidentally overlooked or mistreated by a Deity, you can appeal your case to the entire Pantheon and they are regarded as being fair at the end of the day.

                          While they consider humanity to be their slaves, and to be beneath them, they don't think they can do just anything to humans. If you are to punish them, there must be a reason. And, if you punish them unjustly, that's a big tisk tisk from the Pantheon and they would do their best to deal with the unfair treatment. The Shiunesh won't harass you just because. If you insult them, insult their people, harm their people, violate taboos, they will come down on you hard. They're, at the same time, way harsher, and exceptionally more fair, than the Theoi.


                          Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
                          The Šiuneš, The Enduri, The Sgā’na Qeda’s, The Abosom, Lebor Óe In Dea, The Zemi, Nemetondevos: Revised, and Mysteries of the Otherworld.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Watcher View Post

                            Happy to help! And they are super interesting. My absolute favorite detail is, while they do have a habit of snapping and nearly killing off all humans, you can totally reason with them. Prayers for the Hittites is a lot like being in court. You present your argument, you present evidence, you explain why you are being unfairly treated, and the Gods confer on this amongst themselves for all prayers. While they are very angry at times, they are also really-really focused on being just, and right in their rules. Sure, the punishment for breaking some rules is borderline extinction, but if you got accidentally overlooked or mistreated by a Deity, you can appeal your case to the entire Pantheon and they are regarded as being fair at the end of the day.

                            While they consider humanity to be their slaves, and to be beneath them, they don't think they can do just anything to humans. If you are to punish them, there must be a reason. And, if you punish them unjustly, that's a big tisk tisk from the Pantheon and they would do their best to deal with the unfair treatment. The Shiunesh won't harass you just because. If you insult them, insult their people, harm their people, violate taboos, they will come down on you hard. They're, at the same time, way harsher, and exceptionally more fair, than the Theoi.
                            Hmmmm, are you going to them for scion 2.0? If so,how is their psp gonna shape up?

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                              Hmmmm, are you going to them for scion 2.0? If so,how is their psp gonna shape up?
                              I'm not sure what edition I will write the Hittites (or the Abosom, or Haida) for at the moment. My current plan is to wait to see what 2e has in store for us, and finish the Pantheons for whichever system we decide to go with. I have the research stockpiled and the majority of things written already though. A lot of the Pantheons are sort of Edition-Agnostic, origin myths sections, cultural notes, Pantheon relationships, who should be a Divine Parent and their basic packages, cosmology, that sort of stuff.

                              The PsP for the Hittites, no matter what edition, would probably best be about their notions of Divinity. The two major themes would be your personal dominance of mortals, and the dominance of Deities over yourself. Stuff for Scions taking sacrifices (offerings of food, clothes, having their statues perfumed, money) as well as the Gods being able to press-gang a Scion into doing things for them in return for them favoring their little helper. Probably some mechanics for their idea of being in sacrificial debt (you could go, "I promise I will go to war with X city, sack it for the glory of the Pantheon, if you would XYZ.") as well since I really like it, as well as some of their more unique ideas of sacrifices.


                              Scion 2e Homebrew Projects:
                              The Šiuneš, The Enduri, The Sgā’na Qeda’s, The Abosom, Lebor Óe In Dea, The Zemi, Nemetondevos: Revised, and Mysteries of the Otherworld.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                For the Yazata myths and cosmology, you'll want to read four texts:
                                --The Avesta (http://www.avesta.org/) [Sacred texts]
                                --The Shanameh (http://classics.mit.edu/Ferdowsi/kings.html) [Ferdowsi's mythological epic poem]
                                --The Greater Bundahishn (http://www.avesta.org/mp/grb.htm) [Cosmology and Creation]
                                --The Denkard (http://www.avesta.org/denkard/denkard.htm) [Cosmology and Exegesis]

                                Avesta.org in general is a great resource of texts, especially on what was believed in Sassanian and Medieval times.


                                Religions Academic. Zoroastrian Convert.
                                Official Work: Scion: Companion, Scion: Demigod.
                                Nexus Work: Cortes Divinas of Maria Lionza

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