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  • #76
    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    Does anibody know if kronos,hyperion,oceanus and those other titans were ever worshipped? or were they always the bad guys that the the olympians defeated?
    The Titans get worshiped sometimes, but not all of them. Not because some are 'too horrible to worship' or anything, more like because some of them were just so borderline 'meh' that they didn't attract any major cult presence. The biggest two who get worshiped are probably Cronus (as Saturn) and Rhea (as Rhea, Ops, and Cybele). Mnemosyne gets invoked at the start of some of the poetic epics, but that isn't worship. Themis is essentially the modern day Lady Justice, but having a bunch of statues isn't worship. She's just used as an Anthropomorphic Personification. The rest of The Twelve Titans don't really pick anything up in any major way as far as I know, they just sort of fade out of view. If they had any cult presence, it was so minor we have no reference to it. (Coeus, Crius, Hyperion, Iapetus, Theia, and Phoebe)

    For the other Titans, since there's a lot of them, I can't think of anyone who really gets worship asides from Hecate. She doesn't fight with Zeus though, she's one of the Titans who turns traitor, and allies with the young Gods. She has a cult presence with the Eleusinian Mysteries as the 'big' one, at least in my head. But she also has household shrines, crossroad shrines, and apparently some ones in Aegina, Sicyonia, Argolis, Thessaly, Samothrace, Delos, Rhodes, Lydia, Caria, Sicily, and the Argonauts build a shrine to her at one point. If you want to check out all the exact quotes regarding these, check this out. Helios (the other Traitor) has a smattering here and there, nothing major however. Rhodes was probably doing something with him though since The Colossus was a statue of himself.

    Oceanus and Tethys through him remain neutral during both the Titan's castration of Ouranos, and Zeus' war against the Titans, they just sort of hang out in the background. Foster Hera at one point I believe, helping raise her, possibly after she was vomited up I suppose? Neither of them pick up any worship from what I know however.

    The two biggest Titans who pick up worship are Cronus and Rhea however. Not so much with the Greeks, but the Romans have a really interesting time with the pair of them. Saturn (Roman Cronus) gets worshiped as a very important entity, crops, that sort of thing. Everyone loves the Gods of crops. The Saturnalia is a very big Roman festival which is devoted to him, you can see his features of fertility as well as the chaos, or 'lack of society' angles with it. Rhea is a huge mess though. She gets identified with two figures for the Romans, Ops, who is your general wealth, prosperity, fertility figure. And then Rhea also gets identified with Cybele, and that sort of gets out of hand. She is a major Motherhood entity, tons of festivals and whatnot, fertility, crops, all that. She, however, has a bit of a... chaotic side which made Rome rather uncomfortable. Self-castration, some Dionysus-style stuff, that causes the Romans to crack down on things and try to block off that style of worship of her.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Watcher View Post

      The Titans get worshiped sometimes, but not all of them. Not because some are 'too horrible to worship' or anything, more like because some of them were just so borderline 'meh' that they didn't attract any major cult presence. The biggest two who get worshiped are probably Cronus (as Saturn) and Rhea (as Rhea, Ops, and Cybele). Mnemosyne gets invoked at the start of some of the poetic epics, but that isn't worship. Themis is essentially the modern day Lady Justice, but having a bunch of statues isn't worship. She's just used as an Anthropomorphic Personification. The rest of The Twelve Titans don't really pick anything up in any major way as far as I know, they just sort of fade out of view. If they had any cult presence, it was so minor we have no reference to it. (Coeus, Crius, Hyperion, Iapetus, Theia, and Phoebe)

      For the other Titans, since there's a lot of them, I can't think of anyone who really gets worship asides from Hecate. She doesn't fight with Zeus though, she's one of the Titans who turns traitor, and allies with the young Gods. She has a cult presence with the Eleusinian Mysteries as the 'big' one, at least in my head. But she also has household shrines, crossroad shrines, and apparently some ones in Aegina, Sicyonia, Argolis, Thessaly, Samothrace, Delos, Rhodes, Lydia, Caria, Sicily, and the Argonauts build a shrine to her at one point. If you want to check out all the exact quotes regarding these, check this out. Helios (the other Traitor) has a smattering here and there, nothing major however. Rhodes was probably doing something with him though since The Colossus was a statue of himself.

      Oceanus and Tethys through him remain neutral during both the Titan's castration of Ouranos, and Zeus' war against the Titans, they just sort of hang out in the background. Foster Hera at one point I believe, helping raise her, possibly after she was vomited up I suppose? Neither of them pick up any worship from what I know however.

      The two biggest Titans who pick up worship are Cronus and Rhea however. Not so much with the Greeks, but the Romans have a really interesting time with the pair of them. Saturn (Roman Cronus) gets worshiped as a very important entity, crops, that sort of thing. Everyone loves the Gods of crops. The Saturnalia is a very big Roman festival which is devoted to him, you can see his features of fertility as well as the chaos, or 'lack of society' angles with it. Rhea is a huge mess though. She gets identified with two figures for the Romans, Ops, who is your general wealth, prosperity, fertility figure. And then Rhea also gets identified with Cybele, and that sort of gets out of hand. She is a major Motherhood entity, tons of festivals and whatnot, fertility, crops, all that. She, however, has a bit of a... chaotic side which made Rome rather uncomfortable. Self-castration, some Dionysus-style stuff, that causes the Romans to crack down on things and try to block off that style of worship of her.
      Oh Man,i was hoping at least Hyperion had a cult as the original Titan of Light and Lord of one of the four directions,i like his aesthethics you know? big,brawny dude who was the original Light of the cosmos,i'd love to play him in a movie.
      Wait,the Argonauts were Real?

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
        Wait,the Argonauts were Real?
        Oh, no, sorry. I should have phrased that, "The Argonauts were credited with building a shrine to Hecate." The Argonauts are well into the realm of mythic figures.

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        • #79
          For some reason, I always had the impression that the Titans were anthropomorphized embodiments of big natural forces or the like. Hyperion actually is the sun, Oceanus actually is the ocean, Kronos actually is time(?), and so on. But that may just be me being weird.


          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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          • #80
            Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
            For some reason, I always had the impression that the Titans were anthropomorphized embodiments of big natural forces or the like. Hyperion actually is the sun, Oceanus actually is the ocean, Kronos actually is time(?), and so on. But that may just be me being weird.
            The best answer for that is 'sometimes.' Being the physical 'thing' itself is more of what the Protogenoi (Ouranos, Gaia, Pontos, Ourea, etc) are up to than the Titans, but there is some weird points of overlap. Oceanus shares a name with the border-ocean of the world, even though he is only a Titan. That might be a Hades rules over Hades situation though?

            Generally for the Greeks, the Protogenoi are physical parts of reality, be it the earth (Gaia), the sky (Ouranos), the sea (Pontos), the mountains (Ourea), where as the Titans are more anthropomorphic. A handy way to look at it might be that the further an entity is from the start of creation, the more anthropomorphic they are. The Protogenoi are minimally humanized, mostly just natural features of reality, where the Titans are more human-like, and the Theoi are almost exaggerations of humanity.

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Watcher View Post
              Generally for the Greeks, the Protogenoi are physical parts of reality, be it the earth (Gaia), the sky (Ouranos), the sea (Pontos), the mountains (Ourea), where as the Titans are more anthropomorphic. A handy way to look at it might be that the further an entity is from the start of creation, the more anthropomorphic they are. The Protogenoi are minimally humanized, mostly just natural features of reality, where the Titans are more human-like, and the Theoi are almost exaggerations of humanity.
              That makes sense, thank you.

              I suspect I'm partially influenced here by George O'Conner's Olympians series, in which any time he draws the Titans, they tend to be these sort of nebulous proto-humans, and any time Gaia appears, it's just this voice coming up out of the earth. Now that you've pointed some of this stuff out, it also occurs to me that this may be part of why he decided to present Hestia, the oldest of the six original gods, as being somewhere between human looking and living flame.


              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

              Comment

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