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  • You have? Has any of what you said contradicted what I've said previously? Scions not being able to level cities with a gesture from the word go doesn't change that they are still modestly superhuman just to begin with and only get more so with time.

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    • I sure do love this conversation about Monotheism, this thread's topic.


      Just call me Lex.

      Female pronouns for me, please.

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      • It was on-topic; discussing whether anything like monotheism could exist in a setting with Scions. Still, as you say, we've sorta burned through that, so on to a more fun turn of the page.

        I'd probably play monotheism in any game of Scion as being treated in one of two ways, depending on what form it takes.

        Monotheism that says there is only one god or that one god is supreme over all others will get treated like the Romans treated it; as superstition. Not in the modern sense of the world, but as something you can do but which is largely unnecessary. Having a particularly close connection with a god is normal, but treating them as the be-all and end-all is overboard.

        The other, more Brahmist interpretation is that the gods are all facets of some supreme but distant overdeity, which rules beyond even the highest heaven. That sort of belief is pretty compatible with other beliefs. Depending on circumstances, it might brush over into a violent fundamentalism, but that's really dependent on the type(s) of story I want to tell at a given time.

        That said, just as many Catholics are most familiar with a particular saint, so likely are most people familiar with a particular patron deity, which would give rise to a diversity of traditions. The World, as I see it, would more resemble the traditional religious practices of India - a great diversity, with more focus on what your beliefs lead you to do than what gods you believe in - than the monotheistic practices that arose in the West.

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        • I often go with the notion that there is no Overdeity - every god and every person is a unique, yet connected entity that collectively make up that original singular unity.

          If you've ever read Alan Moore's Promethea, itself an inspiration for Mage: the Awakening, that's basically what it is.


          We don't allow mages to cast spells, since this is the most unbalancing rule of all.

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          • Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but I feel like sharing Modekngei. I imagine that there would be a multitude of similar religions in the Scion version of the World.
            Last edited by Crying; 11-29-2016, 03:43 AM.

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            • Originally posted by Crying View Post
              Sorry for ressurecting this thread, but I feel like sharing Modekngei, which I imagine the Scion version of the World would have a lot more similar religions too.
              Well most of the monotheists I know think Resurection is great.


              The sea looks at the stability of the mountain and sighs. The mountain watches the freedom of the sea and cries.

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              • Originally posted by simison View Post
                That's 9. The first three are mentioned in the Bible proper, while the next five are listed in the Book of Enoch. Metatron is more of a mystery and seems more tied to the Talmud. Reviewing the original Scion game, the pantheons ranged from 12 at the most to as little as 7. So, technically, you have a full roster right there. There is another list that has Jophiel, Zadkiel, and Camael for other additions or alternate names for the first nine. And, of course, more could be added, either from In Nominee or just coming up with more on your own.
                On names, I recommend A Dictionary of Angels. Lots of info and cross references if you want to dive into the angelology rabbit hole. The intro covers methodology and processes, as well as the Lucifer debate. (Specifically if he exists or happens to be religious fan fiction due to a mistranslation or misinterpretation of the Bible.) It's a thick book and a purchase I love. It's come in handy for a number of games.

                More on topic, I'm inclined towards God/YHWH/Allah being a mystery in setting and a matter of faith. Angels, saints, demons/fallen angels, etc exist and they do whatever it is they do. Every once in a while angels perform their role as messengers announcing 'you're a Scion' and that results in saints, prophets, Nephilim, and the like. Historically this has resulted in notable Scions/Prophets like Jesus and Mohammad. When asked about God, the angels make it a matter of faith, but don't address the question directly because of reasons of faith and they don't want to spill that God/YHWH/Allah is too fatebound to act. The average PC's best case scenario: "Sorry, He's busy. I'll take Him a message. It's what angels do." On no account will the Scion get an audience. Is He a Titan, Primordial, or Overgod? No one knows outside of the upper echelons of the Host and they aren't talking. It's a need to know basis, and you don't need to know unless your GM thinks otherwise.

                When asked about the other pantheons, the Host's answer is that the 'gods' are powerful entities, but they are no more 'gods' than angels are. (Despite what their followers think.) Some 'gods' might be considered demons, some aren't. The attitude of the Host resulted in historical conflict and animosity especially after Christianity and Islam flourished. Right now there's a bit of a detente.

                Due to the current (RL) fighting between the various Abrahamic religious sects, the Host is in a state of civil war. The other Pantheons have had a bit of freedom since they don't have to deal with the Host(s). I vaguely remember from somewhere that a couple of the archangels are direct patrons of specific Abrahamic religions, so that could be the source of the conflict. If you really want to emphasize the civil war, some of the gods could be antagonizing the Host(s) so the civil war continues. Then the gods get the breathing room they need to accomplish their goals without the Host(s) interference. Tons of plot hooks for all sorts of PCs there.

                Mechanically God/YHWH/Allah has no stats. The angels, saints, prophets, etc are represented by the appropriate Legend and are treated mechanically as gods, even though they aren't in setting. Angels and so on are simply imbued with His Grace and the mechanics represent His relative investiture. Scions are of the appropriate type happen now and again and progress just as any other Scion does.

                In game, relevance is left to the table/GM to decide. PC Scions of the Host can play nice just fine based on motivation and shared PC goals. (PCs generally don't want demons/monsters destroying downtown.) NPC Scions might demonstrate the worst extremes of the Abrahamic religions fighting both external and internal heretics.

                Thoughts?

                -Ariketh
                Last edited by Ariketh; 11-30-2016, 06:01 PM.

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                • For the most part, I like it. However, I would say that there are almost no Abrahamic Scions, per se. Followers of Abrahamic faiths basically fall into two categories: humans (who operate the Origins and Hero tiers) and angels (who operate in the Demigod and God tiers). The line between Hero and Demigod is never crossed, the only exception maybe being the Nephilim. But for the most part, plan for a Scion game that includes Abrahamic protagonists to stay in a given tier indefinitely.

                  Traditionally, humans have almost always operated at the Origins tier, the most notable exception being Samson. But traditionally, they haven't been sharing a world with Heroes and Demigods. In a world where the enemies of the Abrahamic faiths regularly field such beings, there are more occasions where Samson-like Heroes will be raised up to defend the faith. Meanwhile, angels normally operate on the Demigod tier, with a select few of them (Michael, Gabriel, Lucifer, etc.) operating on the level of gods.


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                  • In my version of the World, YHWH and his angels are something of a conspiracy theory among divine beings -- the equivalent of UFOs or the Illuminati. None of the major pantheons have ever encountered either directly, and most deny their existence. Of course, mortal worshipers of the Abrahamic God are almost as common as they are in our world, but these days they're mostly too focused on fighting among themselves to pose much of a threat to "idolaters." That said, a few pantheons have had unpleasant run-ins with Prophets or Saints claiming to serve the Most High. The Netjer Do Not Talk About Moses, and the Arabic 'Alihah still haven't recovered from what Muhammad and his companions did to them. The Canaanite Elohim are rumored to know more, but they're not talking -- in fact, they won't even say His name out loud. Those deities who do believe in YHWH's existence often become paranoid and obsessed with deciphering His hidden agenda, often seeing Him as the secret mastermind behind Titanic activity, inter-pantheon conflict, and other threats. Angel sightings, real or fake, are a common topic of discussion on divine message boards. There's also a growing community of "Armageddon preppers," making ready for the day when the Heavenly Host finally come for them. After all, if YHWH does exist, the one thing anyone knows for certain is that He's a jealous God.

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                    • I've said elsewhere that my personal solution to where the Abrahamic faiths fit into Scion's World in terms of having mojo to throw around is by having an Angelic Pantheon that almost exclusively creates Chosen Scions or else handles things themselves, and then that a great number of mortals use Abrahamic motifs to work their magics as miracles.


                      Just call me Lex.

                      Female pronouns for me, please.

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                      • I think it would be more interesting to have a Demonic pantheon than an Angelic one. I mean, yeah sure, you could have Gabriel as your parent.... or you could have the motherfucking Leviathan.

                        Besides, a Demonic pantheon would probably be less likely to offend people and, at least in my opinion, would be easier to make.

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                        • Originally posted by Crying View Post
                          I think it would be more interesting to have a Demonic pantheon than an Angelic one. I mean, yeah sure, you could have Gabriel as your parent.... or you could have the motherfucking Leviathan.

                          Besides, a Demonic pantheon would probably be less likely to offend people and, at least in my opinion, would be easier to make.
                          I'd like an Angelic Pantheon solely because you could explore different readings of them between faiths and also draw on their later symbolism in other occult traditions, like Dee's writings on associating the archangels to the planets.


                          Just call me Lex.

                          Female pronouns for me, please.

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