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All Myths Are True! But not in the way you're thinking...

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  • All Myths Are True! But not in the way you're thinking...

    Guys,i've got two theori3s that may prove controversial. It started when i read the Theoi preview. And they mentioned how they are sorta dismissed by the mesopotomians gods know as the Annuna
    the Anunna dwell there
    still, quiet for an eon, and they remember when the Theoi were nothing more than young upstarts
    barely free of their mortality.
    But wait a minute... Only some of the Theoi started as mortals according to their Myth,Hestial,Demeter Hera Hades Poseidon and Zeus and Aphrodite and Apollo and Artemis and Hephaestus and Athena and Ares ,all of them were born as fully fledged gods,same thing with minor theoi like Hypos and Thanatos. But then i start to think about the World. Let's hear what Meghan Fitzgerald said in the Setting Chapter

    its layers upon layers of paradoxical mythology and cycles of death and rebirth provide endless fragments of half-real places, things that both do and do not exist at once. Echoes of humanity's first flame butn in dozens of forgotten niches, each with its own story to tell about whose hand — or paw, or claw — carried it there. Axes Mundi that lead to nowhere flicker in and out of reality based on portents associated with long-dead pantheons. Powerful telescopes capture photographs of planets in deep space that change appearance periodically according to the tides of mutable creation histories. Intrepid pilgrims comb the World's every corner for hints to tales unspun and not yet spun alike.
    She is making a point of telling us the World past changes based on the God's Creation Stories,Which May mean that The whole story about the theoi being born as gods is only true from a certain point of view... Here's my first theory.

    The Original Theoi started as just people,then they became gods. when they became gods they crafted a creation story and with their divine power the story they wrote become real and changed the past. The stry of Gaia Creating uranos,giving birth to Titans who agve birth to Zeus and his siblings? it didn't used to be Real! But when the Theoi were gods they found a way to Burn that Myth onto mankind's conciousness,changing the past forever Making all their myths somethign that did happened and that people will remember. The Theoi started as just people who became divine in one level of reality and in another level of reality they were always gods. We know the scionverse allows for such Paradoxes. If it didn't how can the world have been created by Rangi and Papi,and By Atum saying the name of the ennead and by all others creation deities at the same time?

    My other theory is the circle of deat and rebirth Meghan mentioned. What if from time to tie,the World ends and begins anew to acomodate all controversial myths?
    Last edited by Nicolas Milioni; 09-26-2016, 01:01 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    But wait a minute... Only some of the Theoi started as mortals according to their Myth, Hestial,Demeter Hera Hades Poseidon and Zeus and Aphrodite and Apollo and Artemis and Hephaestus and Athena and Ares ,all of them were born as fully fledged gods,same thing with minor theoi like Hypos and Thanatos. But then i start to think about the World. Let's hear what Meghan Fitzgerald said in the Setting Chapter
    I read that as the Anunnaki being... well, themselves. The Anunnaki are very concerned about 'layers' of Divinity. In their myths, the Anunnaki (Great Gods) create the Anunna (Gods) to function as a slave race for them. Eventually the Anunna rise up and war with the Anunnaki, which causes the Anunnaki to roll their eyes and go, "Look, fine, we won't have you as servants any more." and they create humans to be the slave race for both the Anunna and the Anunnaki.

    So, if the Anunnaki were looking out to Greece, and watched Zeus et al. warring with the Titans, the Anunnaki would probably see the Greeks as being 'barely free of their mortality' in that they are still incredibly weak compared to the Titans. Unlike the Anunnaki who just threw down in a no-holds-barred fight against their primordial ancestor, the Greeks needed to run around getting allies (The Primordial Cyclopses, The Hundred Handed Ones, Nix, Hecate, Helios, Selene, Eos) just to be able to stand a chance.

    But! I can see where you are coming from, that could be neat too. Explaining how all myths are true can be fun, I tend to just hand wave it and go, "They Are." in that there are frequent cosmic-retcons done by Fate that no one 'in universe' notices. The Shen have always known about the Orisha, for example, even though one predates the other IIRC. Never established why the retcons kick in every once and a while though. May be something similar to the Theoi!

    Or, actually, thinking about it. It could be in reference to Scions. The Theoi draw their power through their descent from the Titans (Greek theory of degrading power since the Primordials), so they may have effectively been 'Scions', fighting their way up from Legend 9 (barely a God) to Legend 12 (Major God).

    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
    My other theory is the circle of deat and rebirth Meghan mentioned. What if from time to tie,the World ends and begins anew to acomodate all controversial myths?
    I think that line references cyclical natures of a lot of religions. In time, the Fifth Sun will be cast out of the sky, and the Teotl will have to start again. In time, a new people will invade Ireland and the Sons of Mil will be crushed as they crushed the Tuatha. In time, Svarog will awaken from the cosmic solar egg, destroy creation, and rebuild it once more before falling asleep. The entire religious system of the Deva is centered around the concept, and for the Greeks, Zeus is fated that one day he too will be defeated and a new, younger, more powerful Storm God will rule.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Watcher View Post

      I read that as the Anunnaki being... well, themselves. The Anunnaki are very concerned about 'layers' of Divinity. In their myths, the Anunnaki (Great Gods) create the Anunna (Gods) to function as a slave race for them. Eventually the Anunna rise up and war with the Anunnaki, which causes the Anunnaki to roll their eyes and go, "Look, fine, we won't have you as servants any more." and they create humans to be the slave race for both the Anunna and the Anunnaki.

      So, if the Anunnaki were looking out to Greece, and watched Zeus et al. warring with the Titans, the Anunnaki would probably see the Greeks as being 'barely free of their mortality' in that they are still incredibly weak compared to the Titans. Unlike the Anunnaki who just threw down in a no-holds-barred fight against their primordial ancestor, the Greeks needed to run around getting allies (The Primordial Cyclopses, The Hundred Handed Ones, Nix, Hecate, Helios, Selene, Eos) just to be able to stand a chance.

      But! I can see where you are coming from, that could be neat too. Explaining how all myths are true can be fun, I tend to just hand wave it and go, "They Are." in that there are frequent cosmic-retcons done by Fate that no one 'in universe' notices. The Shen have always known about the Orisha, for example, even though one predates the other IIRC. Never established why the retcons kick in every once and a while though. May be something similar to the Theoi!

      Or, actually, thinking about it. It could be in reference to Scions. The Theoi draw their power through their descent from the Titans (Greek theory of degrading power since the Primordials), so they may have effectively been 'Scions', fighting their way up from Legend 9 (barely a God) to Legend 12 (Major God).



      I think that line references cyclical natures of a lot of religions. In time, the Fifth Sun will be cast out of the sky, and the Teotl will have to start again. In time, a new people will invade Ireland and the Sons of Mil will be crushed as they crushed the Tuatha. In time, Svarog will awaken from the cosmic solar egg, destroy creation, and rebuild it once more before falling asleep. The entire religious system of the Deva is centered around the concept, and for the Greeks, Zeus is fated that one day he too will be defeated and a new, younger, more powerful Storm God will rule.
      Could Be that way,Fate as something that retroactively changes the past sounds really cool to me.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
        Could Be that way,Fate as something that retroactively changes the past sounds really cool to me.
        Yeah, it's weird. I have not even fleshed it out entirely in my game. I use it as the explenation as to why there is no Proto-Indo-European Pantheon for example. The Gods themselves never heard of them, and shrug about linguistic or cultural similarities. Some of the really smart cookies, such as Thoth, do keep small Venus of Venus of Willendorf models in their studies as points of ponderance. A Goddesses that never was. Were the mortals just worshiping an idea? But... just a strange confusing spot, even for the wisest.

        Essentially, any time a new Pantheon 'starts' or one fades completely from relevance, with no warning Creation restarts, and everyone goes back to square 1 with or without the Pantheon in question. Everything happens the same way though, so if a retcon happened during a scene somehow, there'd be a tiny blip before everything was back up to the point it had just been at chronologically.

        It's very weird, and rather cludgy. I just use it for my games since it solves the problem and I don't need to worry about it too much.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Watcher View Post

          Yeah, it's weird. I have not even fleshed it out entirely in my game. I use it as the explenation as to why there is no Proto-Indo-European Pantheon for example. The Gods themselves never heard of them, and shrug about linguistic or cultural similarities. Some of the really smart cookies, such as Thoth, do keep small Venus of Venus of Willendorf models in their studies as points of ponderance. A Goddesses that never was. Were the mortals just worshiping an idea? But... just a strange confusing spot, even for the wisest.

          Essentially, any time a new Pantheon 'starts' or one fades completely from relevance, with no warning Creation restarts, and everyone goes back to square 1 with or without the Pantheon in question. Everything happens the same way though, so if a retcon happened during a scene somehow, there'd be a tiny blip before everything was back up to the point it had just been at chronologically.

          It's very weird, and rather cludgy. I just use it for my games since it solves the problem and I don't need to worry about it too much.
          I'm curious to see how they will explain myths contradicting itself on this edition.

          Comment


          • #6
            Does anyone knows if Meehan Fitzgerald has a account on this forum? I'd want to ask her about what she wrote about the world

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
              I'm curious to see how they will explain myths contradicting itself on this edition.
              My guess is they'll leave it for the GM to sort out the details.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by evilnerf View Post

                My guess is they'll leave it for the GM to sort out the details.
                Ah,that's no fun

                Comment


                • #9
                  Guys!!! Neall just confirmed my theory!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                    Guys!!! Neall just confirmed my theory!
                    The relevant part:

                    You take a Band and forge a new Creation Myth. And your pantheon sort of…retroactively rewrites it so they were ALWAYS there.


                    Just call me Lex.

                    Female pronouns for me, please.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

                      The relevant part:
                      Jakki! I'd kiss you right now!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        This reminds me of the Tribunal in Morrowind.

                        Which is a good thing. They retroactively rewrote everything so they were always going to be gods.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Resplendent Fire View Post
                          This reminds me of the Tribunal in Morrowind.

                          Which is a good thing. They retroactively rewrote everything so they were always going to be gods.
                          Is that a comic?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                            Is that a comic?
                            It's a video game. Some of the lore in that game was downright esoteric and has been a hobby for many of the fans of the Elder Scrolls series.

                            Another concept I've seen mentioned that is similar to one in the Elder Scrolls games (Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, plus some others outside the main series) is "mantling" where you walk like a god until the god is forced to walk like you (how it's phrased in the Elder Scrolls games, I forget how Neall phrased it).

                            Anyway, I'm not trying to imply anyone is stealing ideas. More noticing that cool ideas propagate.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Resplendent Fire View Post

                              It's a video game. Some of the lore in that game was downright esoteric and has been a hobby for many of the fans of the Elder Scrolls series.

                              Another concept I've seen mentioned that is similar to one in the Elder Scrolls games (Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, plus some others outside the main series) is "mantling" where you walk like a god until the god is forced to walk like you (how it's phrased in the Elder Scrolls games, I forget how Neall phrased it).

                              Anyway, I'm not trying to imply anyone is stealing ideas. More noticing that cool ideas propagate.
                              The Dresden Files by the great Jim Butcher also has mantles a plot more than once 😊

                              Comment

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