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  • What Mantles would you like to see?

    So the stretch goal to add a section exploring the Mantles of various gods in the Companion as divine parents, patrons, and creators. With twelve and a half Pantheons on the table just in Hero and the Companion, we're certainly not hurting for options, so I was curious to see which specific gods and Mantles of those gods you'd like to see covered in the section.

    The obvious one that jumps out at me is the pretty severe gulf of character between the Greek Ares and the Roman Mars, to the point that they scarcely read as the same god (the former a bloody brute largely scorned, the latter a noble conqueror and patron of the empire), and I'm really excited to see how wildly different those aspects and the Scions created by each one appear. I'm also wondering if the Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan divide (as well as other 'shared' gods) can be addressed even though we aren't seeing the Mayan Pantheon until Demigod, especially seeing how much more bloody and horrifying the Teotl seem than their predecessors.


    Call me Regina or Lex.

    Female pronouns for me, please.

  • #2
    Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
    So the stretch goal to add a section exploring the Mantles of various gods in the Companion as divine parents, patrons, and creators. With twelve and a half Pantheons on the table just in Hero and the Companion, we're certainly not hurting for options, so I was curious to see which specific gods and Mantles of those gods you'd like to see covered in the section.

    The obvious one that jumps out at me is the pretty severe gulf of character between the Greek Ares and the Roman Mars, to the point that they scarcely read as the same god (the former a bloody brute largely scorned, the latter a noble conqueror and patron of the empire), and I'm really excited to see how wildly different those aspects and the Scions created by each one appear. I'm also wondering if the Quetzalcoatl/Kukulkan divide (as well as other 'shared' gods) can be addressed even though we aren't seeing the Mayan Pantheon until Demigod, especially seeing how much more bloody and horrifying the Teotl seem than their predecessors.
    Not technically a mantle, but I'd like it if some discussion involving Freya, Sekhmet, and Ixchel were brought up, as they all represent similar purviews and personality traits across immense geographical distances.

    As for mantles, I'm transgender, so I'm a little bit biased? I'd love to see something of a Venus Castina mantle for Aprhodite, something touching on Odin's multiple paths to magic, including his time studying under Freya. This is a sensitive subject because historical accuracy is very important to the Scion community, and there are plenty of people who feel such things would only be 'politically correct for the sake of politically correct', but the culture of humanity is far more complex now than ever it was before, and it would be nice to see some modernization mantles, things that reflect how a god or goddess has grown in the past millennia and how they view modern culture/social issues. A mantle of Thor trying to get his hammer back might be sympathetic toward transmen, or the like. A mantle for Persephone as Queen of the Underworld would be great, too.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Solana View Post

      Not technically a mantle, but I'd like it if some discussion involving Freya, Sekhmet, and Ixchel were brought up, as they all represent similar purviews and personality traits across immense geographical distances.
      You'd mentioned the Sekhmet-Ixchel connection elsewhere and it's honestly one of the most novel mythological ideas I've ever heard. Plus, it ties into the conspiracy theories about the Egyptians crossing the Atlantic!

      As for mantles, I'm transgender, so I'm a little bit biased? I'd love to see something of a Venus Castina mantle for Aprhodite, something touching on Odin's multiple paths to magic, including his time studying under Freya. This is a sensitive subject because historical accuracy is very important to the Scion community, and there are plenty of people who feel such things would only be 'politically correct for the sake of politically correct', but the culture of humanity is far more complex now than ever it was before, and it would be nice to see some modernization mantles, things that reflect how a god or goddess has grown in the past millennia and how they view modern culture/social issues. A mantle of Thor trying to get his hammer back might be sympathetic toward transmen, or the like. A mantle for Persephone as Queen of the Underworld would be great, too.
      My own bias wants me to see Osiris as a transwoman, but I'd much rather play that as an Incarnate Scion than have that be a Mantle tucked away in some supplement.


      Call me Regina or Lex.

      Female pronouns for me, please.

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      • #4
        Sorry guys, but i didn't understand well what mantle is:

        The "mantle" a god can wear is the other face of the god? maybe in another culture?

        For example: Mithra is a god in Yazata Pantheon, in Deva And he's loved even by Roman. All this face of the same god are different mantle?

        Hades - Pluto
        Venus - Aphrodite

        When a god is shared between pantheons, he's changing the mantle...? right?

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        • #5
          Something like that.

          Anyway, I'm greedy - I want all the mantles. I kind of halfway suspect this is how we'll get Hathor and Sekhmet into the game.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by ElanConnor View Post
            Sorry guys, but i didn't understand well what mantle is:

            The "mantle" a god can wear is the other face of the god? maybe in another culture?

            For example: Mithra is a god in Yazata Pantheon, in Deva And he's loved even by Roman. All this face of the same god are different mantle?

            Hades - Pluto
            Venus - Aphrodite

            When a god is shared between pantheons, he's changing the mantle...? right?
            A mantle can be a bit tricky to nail down, because different cultures seem to 'do it' differently. As an example, there could be a version of Odin who is a nameless wanderer, and a version of Odin who is King of the Gods. If you've ever read the novel American Gods (and if you haven't I highly recommend it, though I prefer the short stories set in it a lot more) then that's a very good example. Mr. Wednesday is much more an American Businessman and King/CEO of the gods, another version of him comes up who emphasizes his traits differently. Greece Ares is kind of the worst things about innocence, in Astrology Ares is the first Scion, and represents humanity at its most childlike, prone to throwing tantrums, and used to getting whatever it wants from the world and people around it without considering the situation of anyone but itself. In Astrology, Ares only avoids being a purely negative sign in that it can be tempered into a disciplined adult with time; ironically this is mirrored in the relationship between Ares and Mars. Ares in Greek mythology is not positive, often loses control and creates great battles that humanity and gods are better off not taking part in, and in general is depicted fairly childishly. In Rome, the god Mars is almost entirely a different person, representing cold calculated disciplined warfare and the tactics used to break less structured combatants, it also has the 'Gates of Mars' and other such things of interest.

            When I run my games, I tend to make the Aztec Pantheon less a distinct entity and more as a different mantle for each of the Mayan gods, 'Reversed' (in a taort-esque sense). I do this because many of the Aztec gods have titles like: Our Lord the Flayed One, or Tezcatlipoca: We Are His Slaves. Coyolxauhqui, whose severed head constituted the moon because apparently a mother seeing her daughter's severed head each night is comforting. If you look at almost any Aztec god, they have much in common with their Mayan/Olmec counterparts, but they'll almost always be just a little bit 'darker', which in my 1st edition games I would qualify as the old Pantheon taking extreme steps to save a civilization choked by climate change and improper management of resources, whatever magic they used led them down a darker path, and couldn't save the civilizations of their birth.

            A mantle isn't simply something that changes from one culture to the next, however. Aphrodite is Venus in Rome, sure, but there's also Venus Castina, who is a different aspect of Venus altogether. There are versions of Diana that emphasize different qualities. In Greece, there were different 'faces' for Hermes, Demeter, and Dionysus depending on what Mystery Cult you were dealing with.

            I hope that helped explain how mantles might work, I worry that it wasn't much more clear than the kickstarter blurb.

            Originally posted by Resplendent Fire View Post
            Something like that.

            Anyway, I'm greedy - I want all the mantles. I kind of halfway suspect this is how we'll get Hathor and Sekhmet into the game.

            I really really hope not, thankfully given the response from Neall I don't think they'll foist Hathor and Sekhmet off as being 'simply mantles' of existent gods.
            Last edited by Solana; 10-21-2016, 03:28 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Solana View Post

              I really really hope not, thankfully given the response from Neall I don't think they'll foist Hathor and Sekhmet off as being 'simply mantles' of existent gods.
              I should be clear that my two sentences were two separate things. I am not quite as optimistic, hence my suspicion about Hathor and Sekhmet.

              Would rather they just got to be in with the other Egyptian deities, though. And hopefully that's what will happen.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by ElanConnor View Post
                Sorry guys, but i didn't understand well what mantle is:

                The "mantle" a god can wear is the other face of the god? maybe in another culture?

                For example: Mithra is a god in Yazata Pantheon, in Deva And he's loved even by Roman. All this face of the same god are different mantle?

                Hades - Pluto
                Venus - Aphrodite

                When a god is shared between pantheons, he's changing the mantle...? right?
                Sometimes, but not always. Ares/Mars has two very distinct mantles depending on whether he's in a Greek or Roman context. Yama belongs to several pantheons, but doesn't seem to have different mantles for them.

                In addition, some Gods have multiple mantles within the same pantheon. The Orisha concept of "caminos" is a good example of this.
                Last edited by Robert Vance; 10-21-2016, 04:19 PM.


                Developer for Exalted

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                  Sometimes, but not always. Ares/Mars has two very distinct mantles depending on whether he's in a Greek or Roman context. Yama belongs to several pantheons, but doesn't seem to have different mantles for them.

                  In addition, some Gods have multiple mantles within the same pantheon. The Orisha concept of "caminos" is a good example of this.
                  A solar deity like Ra who changes his moods depending where the sun is, is aclso changinc mantles?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                    A solar deity like Ra who changes his moods depending where the sun is, is aclso changinc mantles?
                    I don't think that makes sense for Re, but I'm not a Kemetic expert.


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                    Want to write for Exalted? Look at the freelancer submission guidelines.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Robert Vance View Post
                      I don't think that makes sense for Re, but I'm not a Kemetic expert.
                      Then could you tell me. What's the difference between a god simply changing his mind and personality with the time and a god changing his mantle?

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                      • #12
                        Perhaps different Mantles of Aphrodite reflect different Greek concepts of love.

                        Aphrodite Urania of course rules over heavenly Agape.

                        Aphrodite Pandemos, her most well known "default" Mantle rules over earthly sexual Erotes.

                        Venus, mother of Aeneus, mother of Divius Julius, mother of Rome, rules over familial Storge.


                        Not sure on Phillia...


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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Nicolas Milioni View Post
                          Then could you tell me. What's the difference between a god simply changing his mind and personality with the time and a god changing his mantle?
                          My understanding is that a Mantle is, basically, another God.

                          So a God with multiple mantles is multiple gods rolled up in one.

                          Something that Gods can do in Scion.

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                          • #14
                            I wonder if we might see Mars Nodens, patron of wounded veterans and keeper of the hounds.


                            Call me Regina or Lex.

                            Female pronouns for me, please.

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                            • #15
                              I can only imagine that the Mantles guide will also go into more detail on like, Brigid and the Morrigan having three different aspects/faces.

                              And NOW I'm imagining three Scion siblings, with each one a Scion of a different mantle of Brigid. Fun times!


                              Disclaimer: I'll huff, grump, and defend my position, but if you're having fun I'll never say you're doing it wrong.

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