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  • Mut-Wadjet-Bastet-Sekhmet-Nekhbet

    Think of this as an informal poll about my idea for Mut being in the Netjet, with Bastet, Wadjet, Sekhmet, and Nekhbet as Mantles of Mut.

    All four of Wadjet/Bastet/Sekhmet/Nekhbet have been seen as the same deity, in the forms of Wadjet/Bastet/Mut and Sekhmet/Nekhbet/Mut.

    See people couldn't see the connection between Sekhmet and Bastet, but I read up on it, and that's when I saw the Mut coonection.

  • #2
    So Yes or No, do you like my idea?

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    • #3
      A lot of us have already shared our voices on how we feel about Netjer and Mantles already, so it's hard for someone like me to respond to this without really responding with a simple 'no'. There are times where they overlapped in Ancient Egypt but at this point in time they have very unique personalities and focuses. Sekhmet, for example, is not a goddess of motherhood in any sense, so she doesn't have a whole lot to do with Mut. Likewise with Wadjet.

      It seems far more reasonable to me at this point that the Eye of Ra is a function one might serve, but it doesn't mean every goddess who was ever associated with the Eye of Ra is the same goddess.

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      • #4
        I don't want to see them folded into each other like that, and I feel like most of them are different enough to warrant being their own gods, though I would imagine all of them have the Guardian Calling. There's not enough in common between Nekhbet the vulture mother and Sekhmet the bloody exterminator of the human race for me to consider them parts of the same deity, and folding them together does them all a disservice. I would honestly treat Eye of Ra as a role various deities take on rather than on goddess that Mantles as many others.


        Call me Regina or Lex.

        Female pronouns for me, please.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by atamajakki View Post
          I don't want to see them folded into each other like that, and I feel like most of them are different enough to warrant being their own gods, though I would imagine all of them have the Guardian Calling. There's not enough in common between Nekhbet the vulture mother and Sekhmet the bloody exterminator of the human race for me to consider them parts of the same deity, and folding them together does them all a disservice. I would honestly treat Eye of Ra as a role various deities take on rather than on goddess that Mantles as many others.
          I would much rather see Mantles as more of what's displayed in American Gods - Odin in America verses Odin in Europe, that sort of thing.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Solana View Post

            I would much rather see Mantles as more of what's displayed in American Gods - Odin in America verses Odin in Europe, that sort of thing.
            Again I keep coming back to Ares and Mars as the best example of a Mantle; different versions of the same god, but still very obviously linked. The distinction between, say, Hathor and Sekhmet is great enough that I think they deserve to be different gods, but I'd be alright with Khepri being a Mantle of Ra.


            Call me Regina or Lex.

            Female pronouns for me, please.

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            • #7
              To me that's a bit like turning every goddess of the Deva into Mantles of "Shakti". Can you justify it? Sure. But I'm not seeing the game benefit.


              Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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              • #8
                Originally posted by atamajakki View Post

                Again I keep coming back to Ares and Mars as the best example of a Mantle; different versions of the same god, but still very obviously linked. The distinction between, say, Hathor and Sekhmet is great enough that I think they deserve to be different gods, but I'd be alright with Khepri being a Mantle of Ra.
                To say nothing of the fact that Mars is the way a different culture regards Ares, a lot of the conflation in Egyptian mythology wasn't a different interpretation of an old deity, it was the combining of deities for the sake of political convenience. I think in the context of a game it's much more interesting to keep the distinct personalities and have those conflations represent a rivalry between the two, because who gets the worshipers at that point?

                The only instance where I would approve Mantles that conflate otherwise distinct gods is in instances like The Morrigan, where having those different faces is part of her identity, or the Mayan pantheon where most gods have an alter-ego when entering the Underworld.

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                • #9
                  Well that means not getting most of them at all.

                  And Mantle isn't like in American Gods, as far as I can tell they're semi independant identities/personalities that can be very different from each other. Perhaps an example of how it works from one of the writers would help.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
                    Well that means not getting most of them at all.

                    And Mantle isn't like in American Gods, as far as I can tell they're semi independant identities/personalities that can be very different from each other. Perhaps an example of how it works from one of the writers would help.
                    Neall has said that Ares and Mars are Mantles of the same god.


                    Call me Regina or Lex.

                    Female pronouns for me, please.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Omegaphallic View Post
                      Well that means not getting most of them at all.

                      And Mantle isn't like in American Gods, as far as I can tell they're semi independant identities/personalities that can be very different from each other. Perhaps an example of how it works from one of the writers would help.
                      Their absence in the corebook is a lot less damning than the corebook going out of its way to say that 'X gods' are the same person. Someone could always put together a Netjer Pantheon book, which does include those gods, and sell it on DriveThru.

                      And using the Mars/Ares example? That is exactly what mantles are. The difference between Americanized Odin and Europe Odin in American Gods is a direct parallel of Mars/Ares.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        If a god is in two places at once, those are Incarnations.

                        If a god seems to be two different but related individuals, those are Mantles. Ares and Mars are Mantles of the same god, The Morrigan has many Mantles, etc etc etc.


                        Call me Regina or Lex.

                        Female pronouns for me, please.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                          To me that's a bit like turning every goddess of the Deva into Mantles of "Shakti". Can you justify it? Sure. But I'm not seeing the game benefit.

                          I said pretty much this when arguing against conflating multiple Goddesses in the Netjer preview. We want more deities in our Scion, not fewer. And as Lex pointed out, there really isn't much similarity between the best-known (i.e. popular) myths and information on those Goddesses anyway. Viva le difference!

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                          • #14
                            Some conflation is unavoidable with the Netjer, because the myths are built on millennia of it - but I agree there is little gain in conflating Hathor and Aset. But I would be inclined to treat Sah and Sopdet, and Neper and Nepit as Mantles of Azar and Aset because that's pretty clearly the case in most traditions and there's little gain in separating the repeating couples out.

                            So I guess I'm saying it needs to be a case by case judgment.


                            Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by glamourweaver View Post
                              Some conflation is unavoidable with the Netjer, because the myths are built on millennia of it - but I agree there is little gain in conflating Hathor and Aset. But I would be inclined to treat Sah and Sopdet, and Neper and Nepit as Mantles of Azar and Aset because that's pretty clearly the case in most traditions and there's little gain in separating the repeating couples out.

                              So I guess I'm saying it needs to be a case by case judgment.
                              I definitely agree with this, it sort of comes with the territory of being that culture where we have lots and lots of recorded history over hundreds of years. If other cultures were similarly diligent, we'd probably see a lot more conflation in the Norse Pantheons, etc.

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