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  • Hell on WoD

    Yeah. That subject.. and yes i know i know that the most Literal hell (Demons and such) is the Abyss but i was thinking about the other interpretations of hell or the mixture: Fire, ashes, suffering..so...Would Malfeas be this place? would The Silver Lake be considered this place? would it be the Underworld? etc..


    Forum's Official's Joker and Trickster. Pardon my bad english, aint my first language (I Speak Spanish).
    ST: DtF, HtR, WtO, MtA
    Signature Chars: Crowley (hakalu), Joe The Nuwisha (WtA)
    Changelings: be afraid of the Technocracian High Five of Doom

  • #2
    Biblical hell is different from pop-culture hell. The Abyss isn't hell, as in, H-E-Double-Hockeysticks hell. Malfeas is the dwelling place of the Wyrm; for the Garou, it might as well be hell. Erebus is unpleasant and terrible, but temporarily purging evil and punishing evil forever are pretty different concepts.

    Some of the places in Wraith's underworld are supremely unpleasant, and some of the themes of Oblivion's spectres have similarities to Annihilationist beliefs about hell. Depending on what happens when a Wraith is soulforged, that sounds pretty similar to everlasting torment also.

    I am a little confused by the question. All of the 'hellish' places in WoD borrow heavily from fictional cultural perceptions of hell, rather than shooting for accuracy from a religious standpoint (obviously, it is a game, after all, not a theological treatise).
    Last edited by The Laughing Stranger; 11-22-2016, 03:17 PM.

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    • #3
      i meant more like
      "Is there a Hell equivelant in X Game.?"
      "Which game do you think has the best interpretation of classic Hell"



      Forum's Official's Joker and Trickster. Pardon my bad english, aint my first language (I Speak Spanish).
      ST: DtF, HtR, WtO, MtA
      Signature Chars: Crowley (hakalu), Joe The Nuwisha (WtA)
      Changelings: be afraid of the Technocracian High Five of Doom

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Crowley View Post
        "Which game do you think has the best interpretation of classic Hell"
        KotE? (1000 hells)

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        • #5
          You can have every type of hell imaginable in KotE.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Crowley View Post
            "Which game do you think has the best interpretation of classic Hell"
            Well, by "classical Hell", do you mean how it's depicted in the Bible, in Dante's Inferno, or in pop culture? Because those are three different interpretations of Hell that might share some similarities, but have enough distinctions that I wouldn't label any one of those as the definitive Hell.


            Writing up Clanbook: Aabbt

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Vysha View Post
              Well, by "classical Hell", do you mean how it's depicted in the Bible, in Dante's Inferno, or in pop culture? Because those are three different interpretations of Hell that might share some similarities, but have enough distinctions that I wouldn't label any one of those as the definitive Hell.
              What if we go for all three depictions

              Biblical ( Fire and ashes)
              Dante (Levels)
              Pop Culture (go wild)


              Forum's Official's Joker and Trickster. Pardon my bad english, aint my first language (I Speak Spanish).
              ST: DtF, HtR, WtO, MtA
              Signature Chars: Crowley (hakalu), Joe The Nuwisha (WtA)
              Changelings: be afraid of the Technocracian High Five of Doom

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              • #8
                Go to Wraith. Many hells are going to be False Shores, but the true hell is at the deepest parts of the Labyrinth which are inaccessible for all practical purposes to non-Spectres and the Neverborn.

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                • #9
                  totally right about wraith. the underworld itself reflects the greek and catholic legends of hell very succinctly. its also worth noting that an early word for hell was Gehenna. the underworld is very much a dangerous place your soul goes if its too attached to the material world to let go at death. I always liked the description of Malfeas in that it was not actually a place of punishment, but rather a place that was being punished. this insight did come from a crazy imbued hunter but it is no less accurate for that


                  there are no bad ideas, just ideas that have not been refined enough

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                  • #10
                    The Biblical hell is a place devoid of God, so Demon: The Fallen is pretty much the only one who portrays it, and the torment it provides, right.

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                    • #11
                      Well, that is the medieval and modern Christian idea of Hell, but there is no Hell mentioned in the Hebrew Old Testament or the Ancient Greek New Testament. When you actually look at the Bible in the original Hebrew and Ancient Greek, Hell is not mentioned one single time. The closest thing in the Old Testament would be Sheol, the Ancient Hebrew word for grave and, in Job 14:13, Job asks to be sent to Sheol to be freed from his suffering, so it is likely not Hell in the Christian sense.

                      In fact, it seems that the modern misconception of Hell mostly comes from the erroneous translations of King James Bible and from the Bibles that are based off of the King James Bible. Interestingly enough, the Ancient Greek versions of the Bible had only fallen angels residing in Tartarus until the time of judgement, which fits in well with the Abyss of DtF. A more exacting examination of the place of Hell in Biblical writings can be found here: http://www.thehypertexts.com/How%20m...he%20Bible.htm.
                      Last edited by Aya Tari; 03-03-2017, 10:32 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Crowley View Post
                        i meant more like
                        "Is there a Hell equivelant in X Game.?"
                        "Which game do you think has the best interpretation of classic Hell"
                        Which hell? The Christian hell? Or the buddhist? Or ANY others?

                        Wraith is pretty close to the "hungry Dead", one of the 7 or 9 existences in some buddhist sects

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                        • #13
                          The Abyss of DtF is the closest to the Tartarus mentioned on the original Christain New Testament (there was never any Hell mentioned in the original Christian Old Testament, only Shoel, the Hebrew Land of the Dead). Of course, Shoel would have been subjugated by Stygia unless it possessed protections beyond that of the average ancient Dark Kingdom.

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                          • #14
                            Unless it was on another plane entirely, say an afterlife in the High Umbra that isn't accessible to Hebrew souls who cling to life too tightly and end up in the Underworld instead.

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                            • #15
                              Any kind of hell and demons you can imagine exists in the folds of the High Umbra, and when Mage talks about summoning demons, it's often left ambiguous what kind of real a particular demon is being summoned from. The Book Of Worlds describes a few places like it.

                              So all in all, we have
                              * The Hells of the High Umbra, which includes all sorts of Hells humanity can imagine. So, hellfire, ashes, being poked with tridents while swimming in a lake of fire..that one is there, definitely.
                              * The Abyss, where the fallen of Demon escape from. Of note is that the Middle Umbra contains "The Chasm" which might directly lead to either Oblivion or the Abyss itself.
                              * Hellscapes in the exotic parts of the Lower Umbra, including the 1000 Hells.


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