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Promethean, Geist and Beast in (Classic) World of Darkness

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  • Promethean, Geist and Beast in (Classic) World of Darkness

    Of course the (Classic) World of Darkness doesn't have Promethean, Geist and Beast lines and I was curious if anyone had an ideas for WOD versions of them, in the same way that Chronicles of Darkness has many versions of lines that appear in WOD. I did see an interesting idea on these forums once for a WOD Promethean where their meant to be in effect the replacements of Humanity, each their own "Adam and Eve". I wondered if anyone had any other ideas.


    The shadows are moving again

  • #2
    Stemming from a vague similarity of "uses a given culture's version of alchemy for powers", Kindred of the East, as-is, could be a match-up with Promethean. KotE even involves a kind of pilgrimage to rise above your present state, too, though it's more about making amends with all your wickedness than becoming human again (unless, of course, you picked Flame of the Rising Phoenix for a character).

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    • #3
      Beast you could spin as a Changeling relation - souls of living nightmares that dwell in the primordial part of humanity's collective dream almost begs for a CtD connection However, a Beast's soul isn't quite like a Kithain's soul, and interacts with the world around it rather differently.


      Scion 2E: What We Know - A wiki compiling info on second edition Scion.

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      • #4
        I know little about Beast, but it seems to me that they would be a rather peculiar breed of Chimerical creatures. Or maybe they are related to the Fomorians in some way, or like the Fomorians, are another kind of Fae that isn't a Kithain, but is still a Changeling.

        Promethean can be done through a twist on the rules for Possessions. I can picture the Divine Fire in WoD as being actually a way to saw a very particular kind of spirit, and the Promethean a weird kind of Fomori/Drone/Gorgon/Kami.

        Geists already have a place in WoD. They are Wraiths. I don't know Wraith enough to say how to better represent Geists, but mostly a Sin-Eater would be a Possessed with a Wraith. Either way, they are already there in the same way that Changelings are.


        Eu prefiro ser essa metamorfose ambulante,
        Do que ter aquela velha opinião formada sobre tudo,
        Sobre o que é o amor, sobre que eu nem sei quem sou.
        É chato chegar a um objetivo num instante,
        Eu prefiro ser essa metamorfose ambulante.

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        • #5
          Well, I think that Geists are more Risen than Wraiths.

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          • #6
            I have flirted with the idea of Beasts in my Werewolf game. Given the negative aspects of the creatures and their monstrous spiritual affinities, I thought they fit best as powerful fomori tied closely to specific Wyrm Incarna.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post
              I have flirted with the idea of Beasts in my Werewolf game. Given the negative aspects of the creatures and their monstrous spiritual affinities, I thought they fit best as powerful fomori tied closely to specific Wyrm Incarna.

              I'd argue straight two of the tribal patrons would work as Beasts(Fenrir, Grandfather Thunder) that making them all wyrm sort of loses the point. They also seem to be much more creatures of the High Umbra than the Middle so you might get some mileage there.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lian View Post


                I'd argue straight two of the tribal patrons would work as Beasts(Fenrir, Grandfather Thunder) that making them all wyrm sort of loses the point. They also seem to be much more creatures of the High Umbra than the Middle so you might get some mileage there.
                Ehhhh... Beasts make for interesting enemies but sort of muddy the water if they aren't foes meant to be destroyed. They are tied to concepts like revulsion and hopelessness and they feed on things like greed and ruin. Not someone you want anywhere near your Caern or kin or Tellurian.

                Grandfather Thunder and Fenris already have children, the Garou, so unless the creatures are the Wyrm's bastards, there really isn't a good cosmological niche. Why are these possessed eldritch abomination whackos running around claiming they work for the Mother? Seems like a Wyrm trick to me.

                (rereads post) ...wait. Are you saying that Beasts could serve Fenris or Thunder or that the Totems themselves are Beasts? Option #2 seems to sell Great Fenris rather short and make even less cosmological sense.

                In any case, I prefer not to divide the umbra into 'high, middle and low' since that is largely mage conception of the spirit world and most werewolves know that willworkers are, at best, idiot children playing with forces beyond their control.

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                • #9
                  I do not particularly like the Beast concept myself. It just seemed to be another "Marketing: The Ploy" concept that did not fly.

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                  • #10
                    In the XIX century there was a fad among Mages for creating Prometheans. An Awakened one is given as an example character.

                    Beasts could be emerging servants of the Wyrm of Balance!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post

                      Ehhhh... Beasts make for interesting enemies but sort of muddy the water if they aren't foes meant to be destroyed. They are tied to concepts like revulsion and hopelessness and they feed on things like greed and ruin. Not someone you want anywhere near your Caern or kin or Tellurian.

                      Grandfather Thunder and Fenris already have children, the Garou, so unless the creatures are the Wyrm's bastards, there really isn't a good cosmological niche. Why are these possessed eldritch abomination whackos running around claiming they work for the Mother? Seems like a Wyrm trick to me.

                      (rereads post) ...wait. Are you saying that Beasts could serve Fenris or Thunder or that the Totems themselves are Beasts? Option #2 seems to sell Great Fenris rather short and make even less cosmological sense.

                      In any case, I prefer not to divide the umbra into 'high, middle and low' since that is largely mage conception of the spirit world and most werewolves know that willworkers are, at best, idiot children playing with forces beyond their control.
                      The Beast "end Game" is in COD is Be Fenrir, or Wendigo, or Uktena or Gryphon. Maybe not as a Full Tribal totem but the IRL myths that lead to the Totems inspired Beast End Games.


                      Beasts are scary big monsters, that's really the concept "How can I play a Dragon, a Giant, and a Gryphon in the same party" and also play crossover friendly. They are no more beholden to "Feeds on Ruin' than Changelings in the WOD have to eat emotions to power themselves, or how COD Changelings are untouched by banality. Or Awakening Mages have to deal with subjective reality, or Ascension mages have to deal with the Supernal.


                      So lets look at the WOD. You have a game that focuses on the Dreaming(Changeling) the Middle Umbra(Werewolf) the Low Umbra(Wraith) WIth the High Umbra being somewhat of the odd man out, Awakening definately makes the Astral Mage territory and Ascension is really the only one who puts much stock in it So its fairly open for use and development, and as a place of concepts they can slip readily into other lines.

                      They are Divine monsters, the blood of gods mixing with humans to make something strange and great. Feared and worshiped.

                      The Other Direction I might go is Beasts as Formorian Changelings but that might have too much thematic overlap with D:TF


                      As for "The spirit world isn't divided" into 3 levels... That's objectively written up in Werewolf. Its not a "Crazy Mage Theory". Its right tehre in the Umbra book. Werewolves can't get into the astral umbra without trouble, and have a hard time entering the deadlands.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TheShadowMan View Post
                        Of course the (Classic) World of Darkness doesn't have Promethean, Geist and Beast lines and I was curious if anyone had an ideas for WOD versions of them, in the same way that Chronicles of Darkness has many versions of lines that appear in WOD. I did see an interesting idea on these forums once for a WOD Promethean where their meant to be in effect the replacements of Humanity, each their own "Adam and Eve". I wondered if anyone had any other ideas.
                        Are you looking to make them a supernatural full-on splat in their own right, like vampires, mages, etc.? Or are you looking for nooks and crannies in the WOD where such critters or their analogues already exist? Not that the two are mutually exclusive. But the follow-up question is definitely, as you looking for playable characters or just finding ways to expand out the the various NPC roles they already fill.

                        For example, full on Prometheans as PCs with some adaptation of the COD mythology, roles, powers, etc. might not be served by shoehorning them into "Oh mages made a lot of those in the 19th Century!" because that's really not as interesting. It makes them just something tacked onto Mage and looses a lot of what makes Promethean interesting and playable. They're effectively just a type of critter that's playable like consors or familiars in an Ascension's Right Hand type of set-up. That's not how splats work. There is typically some splat compatibility where different types of the supernatural in question sync with another splat in another line (like Tremere and mages), but one line isn't just the byproduct of another.

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                        • #13
                          Are you aware that Prometheans did appear in the World of Darkness? Granted, they only appeared in the Mage Storyteller's Handbook, Revised, which was a book of hacks and variants; but it did include the Promethean Plague, a scenario set in the waning days of the Order of Reason when the predecessors of the Progenitors went wild with creating life and let loose a plague of Frankenstein monsters called “Prometheans” that rebelled against their creators and went on rampages.

                          EDIT: My own take for WoD Prometheans is that they're constructs who have spontaneously Awakened — not in the Mage sense, mind you; but more in the sense of “emergent intellects”. A Promethean started its existence as some sort of machine: a construct that existed to serve its master and that lacked self-awareness and free will. At that stage in its existence, it wasn't a Promethean; it was just a tool.

                          Then it encountered Prometheus, a force or entity that I view as being vaguely reminiscent of Hunter's Messengers: no one has ever encountered it other than the constructs that it touches. When it touches a construct, it imbues that construct with the Spark, which in turn grants self-awareness and free will to it.

                          A Promethean is a construct that has received the Spark.
                          Last edited by Dataweaver; 01-02-2017, 04:39 PM.


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                          • #14
                            While they're not called geists or Sin-Eaters, Orpheus' projectors fill essentially the same niche: living people who have had near-death experiences and now stand with one foot in the living world and one foot in the realm of ghosts. They're about as similar to Sin-Eaters as Changeling: the Lost's protagonists are to Changeling: the Dreaming's protagonists.


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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
                              Are you aware that Prometheans did appear in the World of Darkness? Granted, they only appeared in the Mage Storyteller's Handbook, Revised, which was a book of hacks and variants; but it did include the Promethean Plague, a scenario set in the waning days of the Order of Reason when the predecessors of the Progenitors went wild with creating life and let loose a plague of Frankenstein monsters called “Prometheans” that rebelled against their creators and went on rampages.

                              EDIT: My own take for WoD Prometheans is that they're constructs who have spontaneously Awakened — not in the Mage sense, mind you; but more in the sense of “emergent intellects”. A Promethean started its existence as some sort of machine: a construct that existed to serve its master and that lacked self-awareness and free will. At that stage in its existence, it wasn't a Promethean; it was just a tool.

                              Then it encountered Prometheus, a force or entity that I view as being vaguely reminiscent of Hunter's Messengers: no one has ever encountered it other than the constructs that it touches. When it touches a construct, it imbues that construct with the Spark, which in turn grants self-awareness and free will to it.

                              A Promethean is a construct that has received the Spark.
                              That's my point. It's not an analogue to Promethean. It's not a game line with its own stand alone intrinsic worth. It's just Mage adjacent. It's less separated from Mage than Mummy originally was from Vampire.

                              It's not a real, robust line of supernaturals of its own. It's just dangling off Mage. Mage doesn't hang off Werewolf. There's some crossover. Same with Vampire and Wraith. And so on.

                              Admittedly, it is going to be hard to not tie Wraith and Geist together pretty hardcore.... Though just stating "Use Risen" or "Use Orpheus projectors" doesn't really encompass the core ideas of Geist all that well. Orpheus projectors who have powers like Risen (& Wraiths and... well, something like Euthanatos/necromancer Sorcerers) and have to deal with really Avatar-like Shadows... Almost seems more like Mummy....
                              Last edited by Ajax; 01-02-2017, 09:24 PM.

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