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Promethean, Geist and Beast in (Classic) World of Darkness

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Karlgust View Post

    I remember a "Homunculus" ritual from the Tremere I guess; Giovani can make "zombies", and Tzimisce can make the Vozd-thing, I don't recall exactly the name now, things made of flesh

    But if we do that adaptation, maybe even snowmen made by humans could do... Statues, etc
    Snowmen and statues are inanimate. I suppose that the Spark could be granted to them, asking with mobility; but you'd lack the master/servant dynamic between their creators and themselves, which would clash with the dynamic I was suggesting. It's why I was aiming at constructs being animate entities lacking only self-determination.

    On the flip side: Inanimae Manikens, self-assured Progenitor clones, and similar artificial entities that already have free will wouldn't be candidates for Prometheus' Spark because they already have what it offers.

    Prometheans would exist in the gap between robots and golems that exist solely to serve their masters and artificially constructed beings who already have minds of their own.


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    • #32
      Originally posted by Dataweaver View Post
      Snowmen and statues are inanimate. I suppose that the Spark could be granted to them, asking with mobility; but you'd lack the master/servant dynamic between their creators and themselves, which would clash with the dynamic I was suggesting. It's why I was aiming at constructs being animate entities lacking only self-determination.

      On the flip side: Inanimae Manikens, self-assured Progenitor clones, and similar artificial entities that already have free will wouldn't be candidates for Prometheus' Spark because they already have what it offers.

      Prometheans would exist in the gap between robots and golems that exist solely to serve their masters and artificially constructed beings who already have minds of their own.
      No, not inanime, when I said chimerical ones, I meant things like a Chimera who is a robot, or a Chimera who is a Can Man automaton and so, any chimerical automaton brought in the real world with calling the Wyrd... That by some reason, linger on in the material realm and receive the Spark.

      When I said snowmen and statues, I had one very specifics image in my mind: the Terracota men in China, that collection of thousands of statues of the fist emperor's tomb, in there to forever guard their master, and the archeologists believe his tomb is a huge piramid that became a Mountain. I was thinking that, despite not being real automatons, those guys have a huge psychic pulse on them; they are, in a figurative way, actively guarding the emperor in his eternal sleep. And in the WoD, that kind of thing have metaphysical strenght. So, I thou

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Karlgust View Post
        I know next to nothing of CoD... How does those Geist work?
        Geists began as ghosts, but they've lost a lot of their own identity and become more like a facet of a particular archetype of death. CoD ghosts don't have an equivalent of a wraith's shadow, and geists are pretty monstrous - so in Wraith terms, a geist is easiest to conceptualise as both the psyche and shadow losing their identities in favour of an exaggerated representation of how the wraith originally died, and kinda merging - how that would happen in Wraith's lands of the dead is open to question (in Geist, the Underworld has a lot of big rivers running through it, and ghosts become geists when they drink from them).

        The actual protagonists of Geist aren't the geists though. They are sineaters, who at the moment of their deaths have been offered possession by a geist. If they accept, the geist merges with their psyche and resurrects them. (It can do this again, if they get killed, though doing so too much damages how well the two are merged). Life-cycle-wise, it's probably more comparable to Mummy the Resurrection than anything else. Sineaters have powerful necromantic abilities, the ability to visit the Underworld, and a culture that heavily celebrates life.

        And what about Changelling the Lost? They should have a counterpart... Because, lets be honest, Changelling the Dreaming have nothing to do with the Lost, even if they use the words "Arcadia" and "Fae", they are absolutely different kinds of critters.
        Changeling the Lost is probably most comparable to Kindred of the East among OWoD games. The PC's have been snatched away into a pretty hellish realm (unlike KotE, they don't have to die for this to happen, and it doesn't have to be their fault) - they've escaped, at the cost of their soul being slashed up, and obviously being turned into supernatural beings. The Fae and Arcadia do have a lot of the dream logic that Changeling the Dreaming has, though.

        If I had to make a suggestion about having both games, it would be blending their mythoi rather than trying to have both independent. Lost has a realm called the Hedge, which is an intermediate realm between Earth and Arcadia. It has its own inhabitants, known collectively as hobgoblins, which ... well, you said you've been looking at the wiki, so you probably know all this. So, ok, my suggestions:

        1. Conflate the Hedge and the dreamscape that Dreaming changelings can visit - it's still inhabited by hobgoblins (while I'm calling it the Hedge in this list, make it look more like Dreaming's dreamscape).
        2. Arcadia lies beyond it - from a human perspective, it conforms to the hellish Arcadia of Lost, but it might be more habitable for hobgoblins - it's still ruled over by Gentry.
        3. There was a "shattering" event as in Dreaming, which made it harder to travel between Earth, the Hedge, and Arcadia. This also left too much banality on Earth and too much bedlam in Arcadia.
        4. Most Dreaming-changelings are hobgoblins who were trapped on Earth after this event, but have adapted to life there. They can call on the nature of the Hedge and create their chimerical reality on Earth.
        5. Dreaming's sidhe are Gentry who were similarly stranded.
        6. Lost-changelings are humans pulled into Arcadia by Gentry in their attempt to counter its bedlam - but some escape.

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        • #34
          Well, the Arcadian Mages (the souls of the mortals who bodies the sidhe claimed) are probably the closest parallel to CtL. The problem is the conflicting tone of the two games. In CtD, the Dreaming is a source of wonder, and Arcadia is the lost homeland that all changeling unconsciously seek to regain. In CtL, it is very much the opposite.

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          • #35
            CtL has something in it called Charlatans: Gentry who have been kicked out of Arcadia and trapped in man's world. They desperately want to go home. They're not a perfect fit for CtD-style changelings; but they're surprisingly close—close enough that I could see replacing them with CtD-style changelings in a merger setting.

            I consider CtD and CtL to be counterpart games in the two settings; but it's similar to how DtF and DtD are counterparts: there's enough in common that concepts and mechanics from each one can be ported over into the other; but there are enough core differences between each game's protagonists that you can't reasonably devise a hybrid of the two. Still, if they were able to manage a Demon Translation Guide, I see no reason why a Changeling Translation Guide would be impossible.

            This is especially true with CtL2e: many of the changes from 1e to 2e make the game more similar to CtD. Kiths and Seemings are separate things; CtL2e's Hedge is more Dreaming-like; and so on.

            Admittedly, the two games' concepts of Seemings are very different. From CtD's perspective, CtL's protagonists are all Grumps; and from CtL's perspective, CtD's protagonists have no need for CtL-style Seemings.

            And there are some surprising parallels between the two: most notably, Banality and Clarity almost literally parallel each other, with high ratings representing an attunement of sorts with the mortal world. Where they differ is whether this is a good thing (Clarity) or a bad thing (Banality). For a hybrid game, I'd probably use Banality as a baseline, but integrate elements of Clarity into it so that it represents more of a mixed bag instead of leaning so heavily one way or the other.

            I once started doing a homebrew CTG, back before the original White Wolf morphed into Onyx Path. I've put that project on hold until both CtL2e and CtD20 are out; but I've got a lot of ideas about how to draw connections between them.


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