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De-Faithing a location

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  • De-Faithing a location

    I am posing this primarily for Demon The Fallen and Devil's Due reasons, but any vampire players with input should feel free to chime in.

    Basically, I am asking if it is possible to lower the Faith rating of a place, or remove it entirely? Obviously, in Demon and Vampire, Holy ground causes problems, and sooner or later some player is going to declare war on God (especially likely in Demon). How would one mock the Almighty by stripping St. Paul's Cathedral of its ambient Faith?

    Are there any special rituals, or is it a more story-driven way, like causing local mortals to shun the place and regard it as somehow no longer holy? Stage a massacre there, a sacrilegious orgy?

    Obviously, doing this invites the Church to fight back hard and The Inquisition will come roaring in. I get that. Doesn't mean that players aren't crazy enough (and depraved enough) to try!

    Just wondering if anyone has had this come up in a game of Vampire or Demon, and if they did allow it, how was it achieved?

  • #2
    discredit it in the public awareness, let the Faith erode naturally due to lack of reinforcement then destroy the sight physically, it's what the Universal Church did to other branches of it's own faith and was eventually done to it during the Reformation in many places.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Volesus View Post

      Are there any special rituals, or is it a more story-driven way, like causing local mortals to shun the place and regard it as somehow no longer holy? Stage a massacre there, a sacrilegious orgy?
      Compromise the priest secretly - have him engage in several relations (with both women and men), lead him around in conversations so he admits to things like murder being sometimes justified if it's against the 'dregs' of society etc....then after such a person leads sermons and sacraments for a time, perhaps this contradiction and sacrilege will erode the Faith of a location? If this is not enough, perhaps it might be used to power a ritual which will do the job. (The priest doesn't have to be aware that his presence is harmful to the Faith of the place.)
      Pacting or Ghouling a priest might also work for creating a sacrilege, but might make it easy for the Inquisition (or Angels, perhaps?) to track you.
      Technically, a Thrall Baali Ghoul closeted gay priest (assuming that this faith is against homosexuality) would be the best position to start, I'd say.

      If you crossover with Mage, I can imagine that Nephandi and perhaps Technocrats have means to erode Faith.
      Last edited by Muad'Dib; 02-15-2017, 02:48 AM.

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      • #4
        Thank you both Clive and Muad'Dib! The eroding public faith to lower Faith was where I was leaning too.

        (And Muad'Dib, I am frankly amazed that someone with the Slannesh icon did not immediately pounce on the word 'orgy' and stress that repeatedly as a suggestion....)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Volesus View Post
          Thank you both Clive and Muad'Dib! The eroding public faith to lower Faith was where I was leaning too.

          (And Muad'Dib, I am frankly amazed that someone with the Slannesh icon did not immediately pounce on the word 'orgy' and stress that repeatedly as a suggestion....)
          I tend to see excess more through drugs, catalyzed while playing PC games (most notably Warcraft 3 custom maps) or listening to music. ;> Not that I have anything against an orgy.

          One interesting way to do it would be to compromise the priest like I said, while at the same time creating an orgy club among the believers - with the priest being unaware.
          Also note that in the case of the priest having a 'shameful' secret, the erosion is twofold - first, it is because of what he is doing, and second, it is because he is keeping a secret about what he should be upfront about with the faithful. (both as a priest and as a private person) Same about the congregation keeping their participation in orgies a secret from the priest. So a four-pronged erosion this would be - I can imagine a Demon or a Mage ritual could include this in the casting, with mathematical calculations of how far the 'faithful' have gone, and their turning back on their faith drawn as glyphs in the ritual circle.

          You can also challenge the faith in public discourse, so they end up saying ridiculous stuff like "House music is the work of evil." ; I can see meaningless and baseless babble like this as also capable of eroding the sanctity and power of a Faithful place.
          Last edited by Muad'Dib; 02-15-2017, 04:43 AM.

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          • #6
            in one of the dark ages books, it spoke on this very topic.

            most often theirs a stream you can foul, a artifact you can smash...

            in other cases you have to draw on the lord of the faaith to reverse the consecration... one lasombra arranged money lenders to set up business on hallowed ground... and saw its sancity ebb and fade.


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            • #7
              Originally posted by Prince of the Night View Post
              in one of the dark ages books, it spoke on this very topic.

              most often theirs a stream you can foul, a artifact you can smash...

              in other cases you have to draw on the lord of the faaith to reverse the consecration... one lasombra arranged money lenders to set up business on hallowed ground... and saw its sancity ebb and fade.
              Jews (the money lenders of dark age Europe) make a place less faithful? Yikes.

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              • #8
                Moneylenders have been said to have no place conducting their business on church premises by a fairly credible authority on the Christian faith.

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                • #9
                  Actually it was Money Changers and Sellers of Offerings. He had nothing against them just them doing business on temple grounds (and the Elders taking their cut, espechily when it wasn't spent on good works).

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