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plastic surgery and appearance rating

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

    Tale too much of what's bolded and you might as well just write your own rules whole cloth.
    Oh, it needs rewriting of course. But it doesn't need to be BROKEN broken, if you pay attention and are careful with your reading.

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    • #17
      my problem with with using xp for appearance is that appearance(for the most part anyway) is not really a skill you don't train it in the same way you train muscles. plus in some cases beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. i'm sure there is some deep umbral horror somewhere that finds nosferatu attractive

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      • #18
        Originally posted by mark View Post
        my problem with with using xp for appearance is that appearance(for the most part anyway) is not really a skill you don't train it in the same way you train muscles. plus in some cases beauty lies in the eye of the beholder. i'm sure there is some deep umbral horror somewhere that finds nosferatu attractive
        It's an Attribute, and part of it involves bearing and confidence. Since it is a Trait on par with Strength or Wits, you need xp to raise it, otherwise it would be more of a temporary boost.

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        • #19
          Poise would probably be a better name for the Attribute than Appearance, but it is what it is.

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          • #20
            Of note is, that using things like Vicissitude or Life to increase things like bodily stats or appearance permanently only costs half XP.
            Also of note is that, on the flipside, the books suggest the one *doing* the alteration, even if it's on somebody else, needs to pay 'em.
            So, no abusing the character in the group that can do it for everybody else, because their player is probably not wanting to spend XP on everybody else. Clever.


            That said, however, I'm torn on the issue of having somebody pay XP for something like plain, normal surgery. It sounds like an RP hook with many possible consequences and failure modes, and I'm not sure I'd make it cost XP as an ST. But it definitely wouldn't be something off-screen that's just handled with a few rolls in that case - if you only want a few rolls and be done with it, it's XP time.

            Actually that brings up another poll question...
            Where do you folks generally draw the line? At which point does something that normally require XP not require them (or vice versa)? What are the prerequisites and additional hurdles a character has to overcome? Big plot? Consequences? Counterweights in the form of Bad Things?


            > Classic WoD Dice Probability Chart
            > Classic WoD Dice Statistics Calculator
            > Classic WoD Alternative Armor System
            > Classic WoD Alternative Damage Roll System

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            • #21
              Generally most cosmetic surgery probably wouldn't change stats much. I wouldn't say the simple in and out surgery would show up at all on the system. Now full facial reconstruction surgery that takes months and requires grueling levels of suffering and interaction for the user so I'd imagine that's a fair "training" excuse for Apperance.

              As for "How do you train appearance" there's only one attribute that makes sense for "training" its strength. YOu can't make yourself more graceful, more enduring, smarter, wittier, more Chasimatic etc.. all those "training" methods for those attributes are called "abilities" so if you can get around raising Int, appearance is no sillier.

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              • #22
                I charge XP for everything that is not another kind of reward (I usually award characters with Backgrounds during a campaign).

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Lian View Post
                  Generally most cosmetic surgery probably wouldn't change stats much. I wouldn't say the simple in and out surgery would show up at all on the system. Now full facial reconstruction surgery that takes months and requires grueling levels of suffering and interaction for the user so I'd imagine that's a fair "training" excuse for Apperance.

                  As for "How do you train appearance" there's only one attribute that makes sense for "training" its strength. YOu can't make yourself more graceful, more enduring, smarter, wittier, more Chasimatic etc.. all those "training" methods for those attributes are called "abilities" so if you can get around raising Int, appearance is no sillier.
                  Semantics. Attributes have training times for improvement in various iterations of the ST system. So, there are circumstances that can improve basic qualities, and one can purposefully go out and seek them.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Lian View Post

                    As for "How do you train appearance" there's only one attribute that makes sense for "training" its strength. YOu can't make yourself more graceful, more enduring, smarter, wittier, more Chasimatic etc.. all those "training" methods for those attributes are called "abilities" so if you can get around raising Int, appearance is no sillier.
                    This is just... not right. One can learn to endure physical hardship, or be forced to think quickly on their feet. I have seen people come out of their shells and learn how to interact in ways that make you think they are different individuals entirely. People change and grow, and so do characters. That is why the rules let you increase your stats, not because the game inherently unrealistic. It isn't magic. It should all be part of the story.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post

                      This is just... not right. One can learn to endure physical hardship, or be forced to think quickly on their feet. I have seen people come out of their shells and learn how to interact in ways that make you think they are different individuals entirely. People change and grow, and so do characters. That is why the rules let you increase your stats, not because the game inherently unrealistic. It isn't magic. It should all be part of the story.
                      Yes, there is much a thing as endurance training, and you can become better at nearly anything with enough practice. It is just that most people do not think that it is worth the decade of training required to increase by a standard deviation above their current capabilities. How many people are actually willing to spend 10,000 hours to become better in general when they can spend the same effort mastering something that earns them money, gives them pleasure, or they love?

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by The Laughing Stranger View Post

                        This is just... not right. One can learn to endure physical hardship, or be forced to think quickly on their feet. I have seen people come out of their shells and learn how to interact in ways that make you think they are different individuals entirely. People change and grow, and so do characters. That is why the rules let you increase your stats, not because the game inherently unrealistic. It isn't magic. It should all be part of the story.

                        And I'd argue those are abilities not inntate attribute training. But then I don't think the system is a realistic life simulate so I have no problem with someone getting smarter over time without having to flowers for algernon it or get prettier because they lose weight or learn how to use their sex appeal better.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Lian View Post


                          And I'd argue those are abilities not inntate attribute training. But then I don't think the system is a realistic life simulate so I have no problem with someone getting smarter over time without having to flowers for algernon it or get prettier because they lose weight or learn how to use their sex appeal better.
                          Those are rather drastic examples, whereas one, as a player, can also arrange with the ST to have events and changes happen to their character after adverse experiences. It's not really productive to split hairs on calling it something other than training, though.

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                          • #28
                            It's probably also worth mentioning that Vampires can't get plastic surgery. They'll be back to normal the next night unless magic is involved.

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