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  • How Would You Change or Update Demon Hunter X?

    I am just curious how people would change or update Demon Hunter X?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
    I am just curious how people would change or update Demon Hunter X?

    Interestingly, I just ordered another copy from Amazon since I lost my previous one years ago.

    I loved this book. Just a fun, FUN book. The art, the campy feel. Perhaps some of the technology needs to be updated, but other than that, I wouldn't change much.


    I'm a gamer. I'm conservative. We exist.

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    • #3
      For starters, the Qiao titles would all be changed so that they're entirely in Pinyin instead of a mixture of Pinyin, Wade-Giles, and Yale. This is less about Romanization preference and more about the fact that, in selecting Qiao as the Romanization ofæ©‹, you really shouldn't go crazy mixing and matching the other components of the Bridge in the body of the same thing. Note, however, that Shi is absolutely incorrect in every Romanization, and that it should be She.

      The minimums for key Abilities that the Shih need at 4 dots would be knocked down by 1. I'm not too big a fan of having separate Abilities for the same concept (Brawl and Martial Arts), but the way the Shih work might call for it.

      In the vein of its constant harping on WoD: Combat, add in wink wink nudge nudge versions of Street Fighter Focus maneuvers as options for special Shih maneuvers.

      Modify some of the SF0 implants to make it seem like they could be implants from other sources (Book of the Weaver, Technomancer's Toybox, etc.), and also add in more.

      Clarify, without needing to buy the Mage version of these supplements, that SF0 is one national agency out of several. Also, give most nations some form of one, even outside of East Asia. Also, none of these agencies really trust agents of like cut from other countries, a with a possible exception of SF0 collaborating somewhat more openly with their US analogs, but they can and will work together, even if they like to trip each other up with red tape.

      If possible, change around the dynamics of Yin/Yang and Hun (Conscience)/P'o to actually make them more like the qualities for which they are named. Possibly including renaming P'o as Shadow or Angst. Make Yang Chi equal to Conscience and Yin equal to the average of Courage and Self-Control. Trying to tap into more Chi above your limit would become Stamina + Meditation and afflict you with temporary Shadow/Angst. Like Banality, this would eventually fester into much more difficult to deal with permanent dots of the Bad Trait.

      (In the source beliefs, the Hun is the seat of Yang and Po the seat of Yin. The former helps to accord your relationships and propriety, while the latter is more about emotions and/or the senses.)

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      • #4
        I , personally, would've liked to see a section on Asian witch hunters. And by that, I mean a brief overview of the status and history of the Roman Catholic Church in East Asia and how the Society of Leopold operates there, where the Arcanum chapter houses are in East Asia and what members tend to focus on in their investigations, and what the major state security and intelligence agencies in Japan, China, South Korea and so forth are, and what counterparts - if any - they have for the FBI-SAD. Also, Buddhist, Shinto and other Asian religions' views on exorcism.


        What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
        Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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        • #5
          Originally posted by No One of Consequence View Post
          I , personally, would've liked to see a section on Asian witch hunters. And by that, I mean a brief overview of the status and history of the Roman Catholic Church in East Asia and how the Society of Leopold operates there, where the Arcanum chapter houses are in East Asia and what members tend to focus on in their investigations, and what the major state security and intelligence agencies in Japan, China, South Korea and so forth are, and what counterparts - if any - they have for the FBI-SAD. Also, Buddhist, Shinto and other Asian religions' views on exorcism.
          Some of this material can be found in Dragons of the East - the hunter (government agencies and Arcanum) specific stuff is on page 100 - but could nonetheless do with a definite expansion. There's also a bit about various religions and a quick run-down of practices, though this is much more sparse on WoD-specific material. There were also sparse tidbits listing other countries' government agencies in Project: Twilight itself.

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          • #6
            The Catholic Church in Asia is fairly sparse outside of the Philippines (the Philippines contains 2/3rds of the Catholics in Asia). Outside of the Philippines, Catholics make up around 1.1% of the population of Asia, so there are more Taoists in Asia than there are Catholics in Asia (even when you include the Philippines).

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            • #7
              I started working on an update to Demon Hunter X actually, specifically to the Shih as I like them a lot more. I'm about half way through. For Task Force Zero, I'd just say use Mage rules without the being a Mage part.

              One of the big issues unfortunately is that 2e and Revised/X20 are vastly different in terms of mechanics, so I'm having to change them quite a bit. I decided to go a lot more HAM with the anime sorta stuff and buff up the Shih a bit. I made it so they all start with one dot in all Bridges to no longer be considered an apprentice. I also got rid of the Yin and Yang Chi balance thing, which while cool, got super freaking annoying to do in play (same complaint that most have about KotE from my experience. Instead I just gave them a Chi stat, which lets them use the Chi stored in their body, and said that they can alter a Chi's resonance by channeling it through their body. The Chi stat also gives them more powers on its own, such as soak aggravated, passively heal faster, ignore Delirium, and spending Chi to reduce difficulty (stole that from Sorcerer rules). Still have the ability to use Health Levels as Chi, cause that's always fun. You can also raise your Chi rating to store more Chi but that'll take years of training to do so. Another big thing that I see most people hating is the Asian names for literally everything in the Eastern books. Mostly cause they don't remember what everything is and can't figure out pronunciations. So I'm calling them Bridges instead of Qiao, and trying to avoid the Asian names for powers. Lastly, I made Bridges more free form in terms of capability. Makes it a lot interesting and allows for other things not covered by the powers to be done, such as healing others with your Chi which is one of the staples of Chi users.

              My goal is to make it so that a Shih can actually function as a monster hunter, going 1v1 against a werewolf and taking on groups of young vampires with only minor difficulty. I mean really, they're trained for like 15 years to be able to do it, I expect them to be a degree of badass martial artist.

              https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

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              • #8
                Originally posted by theoutlander523 View Post
                I Another big thing that I see most people hating is the Asian names for literally everything in the Eastern books. Mostly cause they don't remember what everything is and can't figure out pronunciations. So I'm calling them Bridges instead of Qiao, and trying to avoid the Asian names for powers.
                That seems an extremely odd objection. Do they not recall the names of their characters, either?

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                • #9
                  I think that it gives everything an authentic flavor to give them names appropriate to the region (though I think that they should offer a variety of names from a number of regions). I do find it odd that they selected the name Shih, as Shih (or Shi) is the Chinese word for poetry (specifically Gushi and Jintishi). Either the writers were trying to be lyrical or really screwed up the translation.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                    I think that it gives everything an authentic flavor to give them names appropriate to the region (though I think that they should offer a variety of names from a number of regions). I do find it odd that they selected the name Shih, as Shih (or Shi) is the Chinese word for poetry (specifically Gushi and Jintishi). Either the writers were trying to be lyrical or really screwed up the translation.
                    Shi/Shih can be a lot of things*, the most pertinent one in this case being the bottom rung or foundation of the Chinese feudal peerage, roughly equivalent to a knight or some form of gentlefolk, and in fact, a number of their powers refer to them as knights.

                    *Only about a hundred sounds taken four ways for over 10,000 hanzi. You're going to see similar sounds and tones showing up an awful lot. Cantonese, in spite of having more sounds and tone, will still see a lot of the same.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                      The Catholic Church in Asia is fairly sparse outside of the Philippines (the Philippines contains 2/3rds of the Catholics in Asia). Outside of the Philippines, Catholics make up around 1.1% of the population of Asia, so there are more Taoists in Asia than there are Catholics in Asia (even when you include the Philippines).
                      According to Wikipedia:
                      • Japan: 509,000 (0.5%)
                      • South Korea: 5,442,996 (10.4%)
                      • Vietnam: 5,658,000 (6.87%)
                      • Laos: 45,000
                      • Cambodia: 20,000 (0.15%)
                      • Burma: 450,000 (1%)
                      • Thailand: 292,000 (0.46%)
                      • Malaysia: 1,007,643 (3.56%)
                      • Indonesia: @7,500,000 (2.9%)
                      • Singapore: @300,000 (5.7)
                      • Hong Kong: 389,000 (5%)
                      • Macau: @30,000 (5%)
                      • East Timor: @900,000 (88.84%)
                      • Taiwan: @300,000 (1.5%)
                      • Nepal: 10,000
                      • Mongolia: @1,000
                      • Bhutan: @1,000
                      It's hard to get a proper number for China or North Korea, given the existence of the state run Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association and North Korean Catholic Association. As both groups reject Vatican authority in a number of areas, there's an argument to be made that their members may technically not qualify as Roman Catholics. There are about 5.7 million members of the CPCA, and estimates of "rogue" Catholics range from another 3 to 6 million, depending on source. The Catholic Church in South Korea estimates the number of North Korean Catholics to be about 5000.

                      The current Bishop of Hong Kong, John Tong Hon, is a member of the College of Cardinals, as are eight others from the above mentioned countries. Then four from the Philippines.

                      So while Catholics (and Christians) are a minority in almost all East Asian nations, the huge population density of East Asia means that those minorities still include a sizable number of Catholics. I think one could run a rather interesting Inquisition chronicle out of Hong Kong, South Korea, Singapore, Vietnam, East Timor or the like. Especially if one or more of the characters is someone whose first contact with supernatural forces came from native Asian creatures hostile to "Western" missionaries or their converts.

                      I will now plug Gene Yang's very excellent graphic novel Boxers & Saints, about two different perspectives on the 19th century Boxer Uprising.


                      What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                      Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                      • #12
                        It is still just 1.1% of the Asian population outside of the Philippines, which would be an average population density of 2.5 Catholics per square mile (though there are a lot of empty spaces in Asia). Outside of the Philippines, your best bet for enough Catholics to make it worthwhile to have an Inquisition is in South Korea, Vietnam, and India, though the native KJ will probably kick the teeth in of any members of the Inquisition that they find (the Shih are one thing, they have a place in Asia, the Inquisition is something entirely different).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Aya Tari View Post
                          It is still just 1.1% of the Asian population outside of the Philippines, which would be an average population density of 2.5 Catholics per square mile.
                          Populations of subcultures don't work that way. They tend to clump together in groups. Laotian Catholics, for example, tend to be ethnically Vietnamese and live in the towns along the Mekong River. About 10% of Ho Chi Mihn City/Saigon's population is Catholic, which is a higher percentage than the country's population as a whole. It's the same way that there are a little over 300,000 members of the Cherokee Nation(s), out of a US population of around 320 million. That's what? 0.0004% of the population? But they aren't distributed mathematically across the country, and more than Somalis, Hmong or Cubans are. About 2/3 of them live in Oklahoma. But you also have towns in California of all places where they make up a noteworthy minority. Because the diversity of human culture is much more complex - and interesting - than "X number of group Y live in Z square miles so they are therefore irrelevant".


                          What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                          Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                            That seems an extremely odd objection. Do they not recall the names of their characters, either?
                            Makes it harder to remember what stuff means/is as they don't speak the language. Take Qiao for example, remember what that is is much harder than Bridge. Qiao is just some empty meaning to someone that doesn't speak the language, unlike Bridge.

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                            • #15
                              I am really from the outside looking in aside from a general sense of withering judgement towards any time the world of Darkness tried to use real-world as a reference to something. But I would recommend using a generic term or relative translation and then attach in Universe words to it. That way you will effectively teach the language. I mean not really teach a functional knowing of the language but yeah. Use a generic term and this case and English and then throw in a number of alternate words and meanings. Also include a note on the sidebar about how there are entire stories and poems compose them nothing but homophones in the language so we really really recommend that you don't think that because we're using this word this one way that that's what that word means. And short ripoff exalted which use a lot of similar traits and ideas but didn't feel the need to play it as if they were inducting someone into the belief system. As such it gave you a basic for gaming purposes idea of the concept and then move you on to specific terms and then hopefully specific practices that are done in history in the real world.
                              that's the best way to do this in terms of a game that's trying to use the real world and its elements for reference. Indicate how you are trying to create a body of work to interpret things and how to arrange it then point to the actual practice and then say this is what we're doing and this is how you can learn more so that you can make your modifications. After all someone who's actually sleeping this if they don't throw the thing across the room will probably be able to edit the entire thing in order so that it doesn't seem all that wrong.
                              So maybe go surreal as opposed to realist

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