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Least Favorite Splat (and why)

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  • Least Favorite Splat (and why)

    I tried looking to see if anything similar had been posted and didn't see anything, so if this has already been discussed, I apologize.

    The only splats I've played are VtM, WtA, MtA and MtR, and Mummy only briefly, so I guess that doesn't count. Of the main three though, I dislike Werewolf the most. Here's why, best I can sum up:
    • I dislike the "eco-terrorist" angle
    • I dislike how it feels like it centers around combat (at least in my experience)
    • I am not a fan of the cosmology/spiritual aspect of the splat
    I suppose overall, I just don't like the flavor, as it's been presented to me over the years, and I started playing WoD in 1998. I freely admit it could have been my first ST who left the bad taste, but that colors one's experience.

    Anyway, what's your least favorite splat and why? I'm curious to see your answers

  • #2
    It would be easier to say the splats I do like, which would just be Wraith and Demon.


    Just call me Lex.

    Female pronouns for me, please.

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    • #3
      I dislike what Hunters are, altrough I like what they could be.

      They had so much potential in their corebook as empowered humans who are revealed what lies in the shadows, and then choose how to act about that...but in the following material most of this wasn't explored.
      Messengers are untrustworthy, they have their own agenda that includes giving most hunters a bias against monsters (monsters fell "wrong"), and the average hunter it's supposed to be OK with them. Add to that the fact that hunters go mystically insane as they improve their powers, and you don't seem to be that free to make your choice anymore.

      Most hunters seem to be decided to "protect humanity" and those who don't are a bunch of inocents that always end giving problems to supernaturals nevertheless (they always seem to guide a crazy hunter towards their supernatural contact). In the coreebok there was an evil hunter that wanted to control the dark powers for it's own interest, I liked that devilish idea to try to take or understand the power of the supernaturals, and use it, but this kind of aproaches were never given atention (even the Hunter who's possessed by an Earthbound wants the power just to get revenge from something monsters did).

      I feel that the themes of "being scared in front of the supernatural" and "protecting humanity" ended overshadowing every other theme that was present in the corebook.I want my hunters to be really divided about how to deal with the existence of the supernatural. I don't want my hunters to be always divided between the guy that messes with the supernatural in a careless fashion causing someone to take a shotgun and start a fight...and the guy with the shotgun...if you get what I'm saying...

      Also Hunter powers are so supernatural that you need to be really blind to think yourself a human (Oh, but we don't detect ourselves as supers!. Yeah, but everyone else's do...)

      I dislike Demon rules, if wasn't for that they could be one of my most favorite splats, but I REALLY dislike their rules.

      Demons wielding Static Magic (that work like Thaumaturgy/Disciplines)?. No, thank you.

      Pacts limited to give a few stat increases and perhaps a minor magic power that ends being weaker than being a Ghoul?, I prefer to have more leeway with my pacts, thank you.

      Also pacts as merely a way to feed are boring. Demons end being psychic vampires, I want pacts to be more than that (let them damn the soul if done cartelessly, let them be a way to go up in the infernal hiearachy, let them be a way to shape the world. Give me SOMETHING so I can believe Demons aren't just fancy vampires). Faustians are supposedly creating a net of Faith as a weapon to break the doors of Heaven, I need pacts to be more than free blood points to make that threatening.

      Also the demonic hierarchy it's boring. The only difference between a Duke and a lowly Fallen it's that the Duke starts with more points. Which doesn't seem to follow the Metaplot at all, as in the plot hierarchy does imply a hughe gap of potential. For one of the preffered ways to end Creation itself to be to release the most powerful Demons from Hell (that weren't able to make it trough the craks of hell 'cause they were too potent), I need the most powerful demons to be something more than a normal character with a lot of px
      Last edited by Aleph; 07-16-2017, 04:09 PM.

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      • #4
        Before C20, I generally would have gone with Changeling. It was for a very long time to me the weakest of the lines in terms of both getting its themes across, and actually being fun to play. The themes were muddled consistently by inconsistency, and the mechanics were too much work for the result. C20 has fixed a lot of that, though I guess I still have some lingering biases from the 20 years of unfun for it to move up much farther in my rankings. But it's certainly moved up from the bottom to be at least tied with:

        Vampire! Yep. Masquerade has consistently been one of my least favorite of the WoD games. For me, it's sort of the flip side of Aleph with Hunter. VtM explores too much without the flexibility to really do any of it justice. With most of the other games, I've always felt that the expansive nature of them was well complemented by easy to turn dials. VtM always feels like it's tripping over itself. It's about politics... but the politics are inconsequential to the Sect war, which isn't really political gaming. It's dark superheroes with fangs, but then the personal horror parts get in the way. It's personal horror, but everything that game presents you to do takes you away from that. Etc.

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        • #5
          Demons from DtF for a number of reasons. You are an alien invader from another level of reality whose purpose is to lead the way for a mass invasion of your kind so that humanity is enslaved. Oh, and they offered much worse deals to their followers than the other types of Demons in the oWoD.

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          • #6
            To deal with, Mages. Can't stand the system, can't stand that it always ends in discussions how vulgar what action is and I could never get my mind around the functions of the spheres and the Umbra and the whole other things that make the setting cool to others but sucky for me. Maybe I'm just too dumb, but Mage never did it for me...

            To play, it's Wraith. And I have to be clear here, I love Wraith from a conceptional point, I like the fact that it's such a bleak and soul wrecking setting and I deeply respect what they creators were going for. But it plays really badly. And my players always go into depression once they notice that there is basically not a single place in our home where you don't run into dybbuks all the time. And that really darkens the mood.

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            • #7
              Hunter was my least favorite, as the use of playable characters from other games as a monster manual bothered me.

              That said, I did like Hunter. I didn't really hate or even dislike any of the WoD games. The only one I never read, however, was Demon.

              I only ST'd Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, and Changeling. I've used elements of all five of the original games in my Mage game, and I've played everything but Demon and Mummy.

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              • #8
                Reckoning is my least favorite, with Demon running a close second. I was expecting something more like Vigil. Instead we get people who delude themselves into thinking they're still human despite their powers. And go insane from having that power. Bad STing and worse roleplaying didn't help matters, with other PCs being targeted for existing. Demon feels like a ripoff of Changeling. I didn't mind the few Reconcilers we ran into, but every other faction tended to be pointlessly aggressive, which is not very much fun.

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                • #9
                  Werewolf was my least favorite by far. I've been a fan of werewolf horror fiction since I was a teenager, and discarding most of its motifs and tropes in favor of a bunch of furry New Age ecoterrorists crusading against The Man... er, The Wyrm did not sit well with me. Black Fox's reimagination of the garou as essentially inhuman cultists worshiping a Lovecraftean fertility god is the only take on the game I've ever heard that sounded appealing.

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                  • #10
                    Let's see.

                    Least favorite: Wraith. I like the setting, it has much fun stuff, but I'd rather like to use it for a backdrop for the other games. I'm just disinterested in playing ghosts, because all the reasons it implies.

                    Second least: Demon. I was okay with the level of "yeah, Abrahamic religions got it right" in Vampire, because it's really a myth there and nobody knows, but it's too much in Demon. Also, I just like "demons" as depicted in the other games more. I'm not saying the game doesn't have good parts, it has and the core concept is interesting, but overall I was never too motivated to play it, in comparison to the other ones. Also, like Aleph, I think it is too much like Vampire, in some aspects.

                    Third: Hunter. For the same reasons the others wrote. I like Buffy, but I want a more Supernatural vibe in WoD, regarding hunters. I want mortals to fight back, with wits and tools, sheer determination and excellence, without the need and convenience to becoming another kind of supernatural. That concept is also okay, but I don't want it to be the most prevalent one. I want Hunter to be the game, which isn't about intrinsic superpowers. Vigil is maybe the one line I clearly preferred the NWoD version of, exactly because of those reasons.

                    Otherwise, I like the big three plus Changeling very much and the minor lines are okay/good too.


                    If nothing worked, then let's think!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Matt the Bruins fan View Post
                      inhuman cultists worshiping a Lovecraftean fertility god is the only take on the game I've ever heard that sounded appealing.
                      Saying it like that sounds pretty rad. I would play the heck out of it, but I don't like that it has Werewoves as a motif...

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                      • #12
                        For me its probably still Demons. I just don't really get what their purpose was supposed to be. I find their aesthetic to be very edge-lord-y (and I say this as a Vampire fan), and I find their approach to lore, cosmology, and metaplot to somehow be even more condescending and douchey than Mages (which set a high bar).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Caitiff Primogen View Post
                          For me its probably still Demons. I just don't really get what their purpose was supposed to be. I find their aesthetic to be very edge-lord-y (and I say this as a Vampire fan), and I find their approach to lore, cosmology, and metaplot to somehow be even more condescending and douchey than Mages (which set a high bar).
                          Agree, although I somewhat liked the book, aesthetic wise, but yeah, Vampire is better.


                          If nothing worked, then let's think!

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                          • #14
                            I honestly liked Mage till M20 came out, just way to many politics and not enough rules. I used to like a lot of the classic games but their Nwod/Chod replacements won me over. Then 2ed came out and the gender politics/social justice stuff kinda soured me on that.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BurritoMage View Post
                              Then 2ed came out and the gender politics/social justice stuff kinda soured me on that.
                              To be fair: If the writing was better, you wouldn't notice. But modern WW does like its ham fists

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