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  • Abominations

    So an Abomination can pretty much use Crinos form with discipline right?

    I been reading up on Abominations and they seem to be extraordinarily powerful.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Magicballz View Post
    So an Abomination can pretty much use Crinos form with discipline right?

    I been reading up on Abominations and they seem to be extraordinarily powerful.


    Yes and No. They lose auto healing. They take agg from Silver as well as standard Kindred issues. They Lose Rank even if they are BSDs. They are in a constant state of Harano. I'm not sure if they even still get Rage though if they do that's far more useful than a couple of dots of strength.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Magicballz View Post
      So an Abomination can pretty much use Crinos form with discipline right?

      I been reading up on Abominations and they seem to be extraordinarily powerful.
      They are immensely powerful but constant Harano + the combo of werewolf and vampire weaknesses mean they aren't an incredibly fun play experience unless you're REALLY into the tragedy of their existence (powergamers will be disappointed when the sunlight issue takes them out of play half the time relative to other shifter characters, for example). They're wmds as npcs, but (while playable) clearly not designed as optimized pcs.


      Check out my expansion to the Realm of Brass and Shadow

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Lian View Post



        Yes and No. They lose auto healing. They take agg from Silver as well as standard Kindred issues. They Lose Rank even if they are BSDs. They are in a constant state of Harano. I'm not sure if they even still get Rage though if they do that's far more useful than a couple of dots of strength.
        Abominations retain Rage but cannot use it along with blood or Gnosis.

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        • #5
          Are Abominations that bad that their existence is a tragedy? In most series, Hybrids are more powerful than either side. EX: Underworld, TVD, THe ORiginals and etc.

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          • #6
            Their existence is a mixture of Werewolf Rage and the Vampire Beast calling to them all at once. They were servants of Gaia, holy warriors of earth. Now they're some... well abomination. They are powerfull, when confronted directly. They have Disciplines, Rage, Gifts and whatnot, but they are feeling the call of two extremely different destinys. They can't follow one whithout abandoning the other. The more they grow in power, the more they lose their werewolf conscience to their corrupted vampire side.
            Think a vampire is damned? This destiny is the worst imagenable for a werewolf.

            Even in terms of raw power, they're impressive, yes. But they're also quite full of weaknesses. No auto healing means they need to heal with blood points, which limits their healing capabilities and prevents them from using gifts/rage the same turn. Only one ressource can be tapped at one time. Silver, sunlight, even normal fire and stakes are your enemies. You're powerfull, sure. But your weaknesses increase by the same amount.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Magicballz View Post
              Are Abominations that bad that their existence is a tragedy? In most series, Hybrids are more powerful than either side. EX: Underworld, TVD, THe ORiginals and etc.
              Yes, because they go from being a creature that is more alive than any human being will ever understand to being a dead thing that is, by every idea they used to believe in (and often had objective proof of its truth), is damned, and they are that way because of their own personal failure. (Things like Underworld and the like usually don't have the spiritual aspect to werewolves that W:tA makes a cornerstone of the Garou's existence.)

              Mechanically, being in a state of perpetual Harano means that all of an Abomination's dice pools are halved, unless they spend a Willpower point to pull them selves out of it for a Scene.


              What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
              Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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              • #8
                Abominations are things which should feel like insane wrecking balls which are pitiful rather than enjoyable.

                NO ONE PLAYS THEM LIKE THIS.

                As such, I have the rule Garou who are embraced just die or they become vampires and lose all of their former abilities.

                "Ex-Garou" are usually psychotically hateful to their brethren, suicide, or both.

                They do, however, get Protean as a Clan Discipline.

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                • #9
                  My favorite was always how it was decided that the Mokole would go completely berserk and destroy everything around themselves in godzilla form before finally bursting into flames.


                  What is tolerance? It is the consequence of humanity. We are all formed of frailty and error; let us pardon reciprocally each other's folly. That is the first law of nature.
                  Voltaire, "Tolerance" (1764)

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                  • #10
                    Abomination PCs aren't really stronger then normal Garou, they have perma depression and stunted healing factors. But they can really excel as an NPC, particularly if you use one as a Big Bad as they can become a meat puppet for the Maeljin removing their crippled soul status, which is funny since they never really explored this in the books.


                    It is a time for great deeds!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Magicballz View Post
                      Are Abominations that bad that their existence is a tragedy? In most series, Hybrids are more powerful than either side. EX: Underworld, TVD, THe ORiginals and etc.
                      The examples you provide feature generic werewolves, not Garou. Garou have only superficial similarities to typical Hollywood movie werewolves; they become wolves and wolfmen, and sometimes travel in packs. Beyond that, it's best to not think of the two things as the same. Underworld's "Hybrids" are nothing at all like an Abomination, because the things that make them what they are have massive fundamental differences.


                      Writing up Clanbook: Aabbt

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Eldagusto View Post
                        Abomination PCs aren't really stronger then normal Garou, they have perma depression and stunted healing factors. But they can really excel as an NPC, particularly if you use one as a Big Bad as they can become a meat puppet for the Maeljin removing their crippled soul status, which is funny since they never really explored this in the books.
                        Most likely because the post-Skins writing for Samuel Haight ensured that we can't have nice things.

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                        • #13
                          Well, vampires are supposed to have a miserable existence if they're a decent person and only enjoy themselves if they're psychopaths.

                          Garou are like that but have proof, positive God is real and God hates what you are.

                          Edit:

                          One game which I think did a decent job of using Abominations in the game is the fact the Camarilla and Sabbat BOTH forbid the embracing of Garou. Why? Because when you have what is already a violently unstable monster and then make it a violently unstable UNDEAD monster, it's basically a one-man wrecking ball which automatically enters wassail or is likely to kill and kill until it does.

                          In his game, Abominations had a -1 penalty for Frenzy to EVERY point of Rage they had.

                          Any game involving Abominations basically amounted to, "Follow the various locations where the Garou murdered six to a dozen people and explain to the police why there's no memory of what killed all these people."

                          I also threw in the additional fact that massive amounts of Banes were attracted to Abominations so WEIRD STUFF HAPPENS around them. Street lights all go out, car alarms activate, cars start driving at you, steam pipes burst and more.

                          It's basically a ace to save the Masquerade and keep the bodies in the hundreds as they kill everything until either dying in Sunrise or (God help you) they hide in the sewers or learn to survive.
                          Last edited by CTPhipps; 09-04-2017, 01:19 AM.

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                          • #14
                            Abominations are powerful, they have more powers to work with and while they also may have more weaknesses, said powers are perfectly capable of compensating for or outright removing said weaknesses(on both sides, werewolves have high level gifts that remove weakness to silver, vampires have immune to fire blood magic rituals etc.).

                            The main thing that limits this from full munchkin is the facts that A. xp is limited(basic design philosophy of CWOD, as opposed to the D&D esc "xp is a river"), B. they have to survive long enough to buid any power(no allies on either side means no trustworthy teachers, they live in a decaying spiral of harano and gnosis loss that weakens them with time, and the have limited ways of regaining their resources without being found out) and C. their basic ideas of morality that they've been raised with and proven to are antithetical to their very existence(more so than a vampire's humanity).

                            There is no way for an abomination to survive without not only abandoning everything it believes, but also becoming a villian more horrible than any they've ever fought. They'd need to join the wyrm to keep their gnosis, they'd need to devour the souls of vampires to have enough power to not be hunted down, they'd need to survive in a world that want s to kill them by destroying anyone that got in the way. This makes them horrible fits as PC, unless of course your particular PC Wants to play the rise of one of the most evil being in history and one of the beings responsible for the WOD being as crappy as it is for everyone.

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                            • #15
                              For maximum Survival sell your soul to the Yama Kings, become a greater Akuma. They'll keep your soul nice and safe! You get new powers. You probably won't be a slave to the beast.

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