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  • AdamG
    started a topic Playing a Dragon

    Playing a Dragon

    Has anyone done a write-up of a "dragon" character ala Dresden Files Ferrovax? Curious how that would work out.

  • Iguazu
    replied
    "I’d say you get used to them… but you never really do."

    Bygone Bestiary is best for dragons. Unless you are running a M:tA game in which M:tA is best for dragons. Think of M:ta dragons as mages who went mad. The have high Life and Forces spheres and either transformed or created a dragon, or them, themselves transformed into dragons. Here are some properties of M:tA dragons: all can breathe fire and do damages as per rules. Creating fire is a simple magik-effect. However, they can throw Forces into it and that changes things. Dragons can heal, like fast. Having such high life-spheres means they can alter life patterns.

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  • White Oak Dragon
    replied
    For anyone who was looking for any of the dragon fan kiths for Changeling: The Dreaming, mine are listed here:

    http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/m...-c20-anthology

    Leave a comment:


  • Maris Streck
    replied
    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
    Yes, there is, because a dragon or what have you (again, Werewolf doesn't use the concept of Bygones) could leave an Umbra Realm, whether of their own accord or otherwise. An emanation cannot, under any circumstances, leave; that world is the only one there is for emanations.
    Of course but that doesn't matter when your plan is to have your players meet a dragon.
    It's guaranteed that you'll find a Dragon in the legendary realms and the fact that it's a realm emanation won't make it any different than having a dragon that disappeared from Earth back in the 1600. Hell, it may even be a legend on the very same dragon, preserved in the realm with all of his quirks, stats and behaviour. The only thing you need to know is that, as we all wrote plenty of times, he can't leave the realm but that's it.

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  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by Maris Streck View Post

    I'm thinking of that part of the Umbra that is contained in the Horizon but not Penumbra.
    You shouldn't need to go that far. Only dragons feeling very isolationist would likely want to, much less need to.

    Adventure-wise there's no difference between a general bygone and a realm emanation.
    Yes, there is, because a dragon or what have you (again, Werewolf doesn't use the concept of Bygones) could leave an Umbra Realm, whether of their own accord or otherwise. An emanation cannot, under any circumstances, leave; that world is the only one there is for emanations.

    Finding a dragon to involve in your party's adventure is definitely easier if you plan the encounter in the proper Realm or the Astral reaches rather than the Penumbra; of course as a storyteller you can pick whatever you want but a dragon should be way, way too rare to meet in your average stepping sideways.

    But, of course, you can't summon a Realm spirit oustide its realm.
    I can see them settling in out of the way Umbral glades that are really hard to find, but not to most Near Realms. Woe unto the poor bastard that managed to get knocked off course and wandered into Wolfhome....

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  • Bluecho
    replied
    Originally posted by Kendaan View Post
    I might have missed it, but nothing in Bygone Bestiary seem to indicate that Dragons (or any monsters) need to eat quintessence to survive. It would make sense in a Mage game/crossover, but the rules do not requires it (and it wouldn't make sense fro a chimerical Dragon though there would have other consequences to face)
    This is because Bygone Bestiary assumes a game set in the Dark Ages or Renaissance, when the Consensus is more accommodating to the mythic and legendary. This is why Thaumivore is a Flaw that can be taken in the base rules: Bygone Bestiary assumes that, in those eras, Bygones needing to feed on Quintessence is a new and irregular phenomenon.

    A game set in the modern day, however, is another story entirely. Dragons cannot exist in the material world anymore, unless they assume more mundane forms. Just look at the "Future Fates" section for Dragons:

    Originally posted by Dragons - Future Fates
    Most surviving dragons have settled into Umbral Realms by the Industrial Age. Although some few of them escape to the newer worlds of Africa and the Americas, the unrest that soon tears through those lands feeds the pain spreading across the world. Dragons, like many other magical beasts, feel the burn of Unbelief as the world becomes a colder, less magical place. By the end of the 19th century, the mortal world is literally painful to visit. Although many wyrms learn to shapeshift themselves into human forms and walk unnoticed through the crowds, the air soon becomes too heavy and stale for any dragon's liking.
    So regardless of whether the crunch explicitly state that a dragon in modern day needs to take the Thaumivore Flaw, it is implicitly clear that this is the case in the fluff. Nor do we have reason to believe that this is only the case in a Mage game, since "magic, hope, and imagination disappearing from the world to the point that mythical beasts have a hard time surviving there anymore" is a theme shared by most of the World of Darkness. The entirety of Changeling: The Dreaming is built around that concept, and how fae creatures had to shroud themselves in mortal flesh in order to survive.

    (By the way, OF COURSE the rules of this book don't apply to Chimerical dragons in the world. Because Chimercal creatures and objects don't really exist in it. They only appear and affect Changelings, the Enchanted, and those of Fae Ancestry. Chimerical reality has no other impact on the mundane world, because they are made of imagination and dreams. If you wanted a dragon made of flesh and blood, who could interact with the physical, non-chimerical world, they must be a regular Bygone.)

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  • Kendaan
    replied
    I might have missed it, but nothing in Bygone Bestiary seem to indicate that Dragons (or any monsters) need to eat quintessence to survive. It would make sense in a Mage game/crossover, but the rules do not requires it (and it wouldn't make sense fro a chimerical Dragon though there would have other consequences to face)

    While the initial set of stats is not that great, te shapechange to human cost only 3 pt at character creation and nothing to shapechange after that.

    For a young inexperienced Dragon the system is not that bad. (I personally find the range of abilities to develop limited for a long term campaign compared to available powers of main templates)

    Leave a comment:


  • Lian
    replied
    Originally posted by Bluecho View Post
    I agree with some others when I say that Bygone Bestiary is probably the best way to go. Because you aren't a different supernatural first before you're a dragon, but an actual capital-d Dragon. Even my homebrew Mage craft, the Heretical Order of Draconic Knights (who I've been meaning to make a write-up for), are still Mage Knights first and foremost. Human beings, who might have a little dragon blood in them, but are still humans; mages for whom "becoming dragons" is their version of Ascension.

    If you want to play an actual Dragon - a Welcome To Night Vale, "Hiram McDaniels is literally a five-headed dragon" Dragon - you use Bygone Bestiary. It is the rulebook for playing creatures that existed in truth, once upon a time, because the Consensus supported them as being just as real as dogs or robins or flounders. And it covered both dragons as huge lizards, and dragons as Eastern god-like beings.


    So, if you use Bygone Bestiary, the next question to ask is "when is this set?" If you play one in the Dark Ages, you are gold. People believe in dragons then. Arguably, you could also do so in the Sorcerer's Crusade, set in the Renaissance, because Bygone Bestiary is a Sorcerer's Crusade book (at least at its core, though it was written to be applicable to the other game lines).

    If you're in the modern day, it becomes a bit harder, but still possible. You would take the Thaumivore Flaw, to denote the fact that you need a steady drip of Quintessence to survive, and the Shapechanger Advantage will allow you to walk among people (and, so long as you only have the one alternate form - a human - it costs only 3 freebie points). This Advantage as written is actually really forgiving, in that it has no duration; you can be in whichever form you choose, for as long as you want. If a Storyteller is willing, he might even wave or reduce the Thaumivore Flaw if you spend most of your time in human form, since you are conforming to the Consensus. So you might get a lesser form of Thaumivore that only costs one Quintessence point for every day you appear in your true shape, to simplify matters. It's up to how the Storyteller feels, and about how heavily you guys want the game to feature your character's eternal hunt for precious Tass.

    I would personally make it a relatively young wurm - only a few years old - so it's about the size of a person. That way you don't waste freebie points on Size or the like, and it justifies having mostly human-level Attributes (at least to start with). Your Storyteller will probably require you buy Human Speech, but might not; again, it depends on the Storyteller. You WILL need to pay at least 5 freebie points for Hazardous Breath, since you are a Dragon and should therefore be able to spit fire (and getting only the basic kind is appropriate for a wurmling, just out of his shell). Claws and Fangs and Armor, too.

    This is turning out to be a pretty expensive character, all things considered. Might need to take out more Flaws.


    I'll point out Bygone Bestiary and ascensions Right hand have you start off with LESS Stats than your starting Mage/Changeling/Vampire/etc. You start with the 6/4/3 fewer abilities that Ghouls/Kinfolk/other less templates get. You are also basically playing a mortal that can occasionally turn into a dragon who needs to eat quint.. perhaps if he had some sort of method of getting quint from humans like blood or something..

    And I'm going to point out again "He was really born a dragon" is bullshit(So is breaths fire but poisons are needed in some fashion for a western dragon) since you know it leaves out Fafnir. If the most fucking famous mythic dragons "isn't a real dragon" then maybe your system isn't quite working. So Yeah a Mage who's avatar is a dragon or a changeling dragon kith damn well should count.

    And Mokole damn well count more than your bygone since they are born as they are, start with higher stats and actually can give you a fucking Kaiju of firebreathing awesomeness right from get go. If you want to turn into a giant lizardy thing that can fly, breath fire as an innate power and not a gift/art/etc Mokole give you your best bang for your buck to start.

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  • Lian
    replied
    accidental double post
    Last edited by Lian; 10-01-2017, 03:28 PM.

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  • Maris Streck
    replied
    Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post
    You're thinking of the Near Realms of the Middle Umbra
    I'm thinking of that part of the Umbra that is contained in the Horizon but not Penumbra.

    Anything that you find in a Middle Umbra Realm is extremely likely to be an emanation of the Realm, not something from the outside that came in. There are a number of notable outside visitors to these Realms, of course, but "Bygones" (a term that doesn't really mesh so much with the Middle Umbra, because it's Werewolf country and Werewolf doesn't use that concept) wouldn't be likely to show up very often.
    Adventure-wise there's no difference between a general bygone and a realm emanation. Finding a dragon to involve in your party's adventure is definitely easier if you plan the encounter in the proper Realm or the Astral reaches rather than the Penumbra; of course as a storyteller you can pick whatever you want but a dragon should be way, way too rare to meet in your average stepping sideways.

    But, of course, you can't summon a Realm spirit oustide its realm.

    Leave a comment:


  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by Maris Streck View Post

    For settings with Umbra access they would look exactly as the myths, since they would technically be either the creatures that spawned the myths or the ones born from the myths as concepts. So, depending on the imaginary bit you're considering, they can be long serpent-like Chinese dragons, full of wisdom and shapeshifting powers and constantly protecting their immortality pearl or huge, fat and dinosaur-like European dragons, with fire breathing and all.

    In modern days they're way too alien to stay even in the penumbra, you'll need to travel at least to the middle umbra to find them (likely to the Gates of Arcadia or the Legendary Realms). Summoning one of them on Earth should be quite difficult if not borderline impossible since you can't summon the ones existing inside a Realm.
    The Middle Umbra is the Penumbra, at least whenever Werewolf is talking about the Penumbra. You're thinking of the Near Realms of the Middle Umbra, except that's not actually where monsters go; anything that you find in a Middle Umbra Realm is extremely likely to be an emanation of the Realm, not something from the outside that came in. There are a number of notable outside visitors to these Realms, of course, but "Bygones" (a term that doesn't really mesh so much with the Middle Umbra, because it's Werewolf country and Werewolf doesn't use that concept) wouldn't be likely to show up very often.

    Old editions of DA Vampire had dragons as a possible, even if rare, encounter. I think it had something like 30 health levels, lot of armor and the ability to breath out the equivalent of Lure of the Flames 5.
    For when your historical campaign needs to become D&D&B...

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  • Maris Streck
    replied
    Originally posted by AdamG View Post
    So what would a "spirit" [Werewolf] dragon character look like?
    For settings with Umbra access they would look exactly as the myths, since they would technically be either the creatures that spawned the myths or the ones born from the myths as concepts. So, depending on the imaginary bit you're considering, they can be long serpent-like Chinese dragons, full of wisdom and shapeshifting powers and constantly protecting their immortality pearl or huge, fat and dinosaur-like European dragons, with fire breathing and all.

    In modern days they're way too alien to stay even in the penumbra, you'll need to travel at least to the middle umbra to find them (likely to the Gates of Arcadia or the Legendary Realms). Summoning one of them on Earth should be quite difficult if not borderline impossible since you can't summon the ones existing inside a Realm.

    Old editions of DA Vampire had dragons as a possible, even if rare, encounter. I think it had something like 30 health levels, lot of armor and the ability to breath out the equivalent of Lure of the Flames 5.
    Last edited by Maris Streck; 10-01-2017, 06:45 AM.

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  • Saur Ops Specialist
    replied
    Originally posted by PazuzuAxelf View Post
    All this talk of Dragons and no one has mentioned Rage Across Russia or Nights of Prophecy, where Baba Yaga had a few at her beck and call.
    Because Rage Across Russia kind of got mechanically brushed under the rug, and Rage Across the World hinted at Zmei being stronger than they were presented in prior work (killing another one was used to justify one of the Russian Fenrir reaching Rank 6). And in any case, there are dragons that you can play in a game, and dragons that will knock over the focus of a game, and Zmei are of the latter variety.

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  • PazuzuAxelf
    replied
    All this talk of Dragons and no one has mentioned Rage Across Russia or Nights of Prophecy, where Baba Yaga had a few at her beck and call.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bluecho
    replied
    I agree with some others when I say that Bygone Bestiary is probably the best way to go. Because you aren't a different supernatural first before you're a dragon, but an actual capital-d Dragon. Even my homebrew Mage craft, the Heretical Order of Draconic Knights (who I've been meaning to make a write-up for), are still Mage Knights first and foremost. Human beings, who might have a little dragon blood in them, but are still humans; mages for whom "becoming dragons" is their version of Ascension.

    If you want to play an actual Dragon - a Welcome To Night Vale, "Hiram McDaniels is literally a five-headed dragon" Dragon - you use Bygone Bestiary. It is the rulebook for playing creatures that existed in truth, once upon a time, because the Consensus supported them as being just as real as dogs or robins or flounders. And it covered both dragons as huge lizards, and dragons as Eastern god-like beings.


    So, if you use Bygone Bestiary, the next question to ask is "when is this set?" If you play one in the Dark Ages, you are gold. People believe in dragons then. Arguably, you could also do so in the Sorcerer's Crusade, set in the Renaissance, because Bygone Bestiary is a Sorcerer's Crusade book (at least at its core, though it was written to be applicable to the other game lines).

    If you're in the modern day, it becomes a bit harder, but still possible. You would take the Thaumivore Flaw, to denote the fact that you need a steady drip of Quintessence to survive, and the Shapechanger Advantage will allow you to walk among people (and, so long as you only have the one alternate form - a human - it costs only 3 freebie points). This Advantage as written is actually really forgiving, in that it has no duration; you can be in whichever form you choose, for as long as you want. If a Storyteller is willing, he might even wave or reduce the Thaumivore Flaw if you spend most of your time in human form, since you are conforming to the Consensus. So you might get a lesser form of Thaumivore that only costs one Quintessence point for every day you appear in your true shape, to simplify matters. It's up to how the Storyteller feels, and about how heavily you guys want the game to feature your character's eternal hunt for precious Tass.

    I would personally make it a relatively young wurm - only a few years old - so it's about the size of a person. That way you don't waste freebie points on Size or the like, and it justifies having mostly human-level Attributes (at least to start with). Your Storyteller will probably require you buy Human Speech, but might not; again, it depends on the Storyteller. You WILL need to pay at least 5 freebie points for Hazardous Breath, since you are a Dragon and should therefore be able to spit fire (and getting only the basic kind is appropriate for a wurmling, just out of his shell). Claws and Fangs and Armor, too.

    This is turning out to be a pretty expensive character, all things considered. Might need to take out more Flaws.
    Last edited by Bluecho; 09-29-2017, 11:39 PM.

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