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How would a vampire escape a werewolf?

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  • #31
    I'd try talking first... yeah, I'm an idiot

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    • #32
      The problem with "talking first" is that beyond the assumptions of "avoid conflict" including talking, is that the games don't leave much room for talking once the werewolves know you're a vampire. There's not a lot a vampire can say (without powers) that are going to convince werewolves not to off them once things are on the table. In almost all the example situations in the books were there's some level of reduction in threat reactions, it's when the vampires and werewolves have set power structures that are on the same page regarding some reason for everyone to simmer down. "Infernalist corrupted Sabbat and BSDs are ganging up to attack the city, so the Cam and Garou have called a cease fire to counter," doesn't work for a lone nomadic vampire that accidentally strays into Garou territory.

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      • #33
        Heavy Arms I don't disagree with a single thing you say. But I do usually play characters who use their tongues a lot more than anything else.
        And I have lost characters to this... I wasn't (completely) fascicious when saying that I was kinda an idiot
        Last edited by Davesknd; 02-13-2018, 11:50 AM.

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        • #34
          About high humanity vampire: if a Kindred shows as not Wyrm Tainted, would the Garou still kill on sight or would that be sort of a reason to doubt and talk?

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          • #35
            Most likely kill on sight. No Wyrm taint doesn't equal being OK with Gaia, you're still a corpse that walks, an aberration. Also, you're a vampire, Garou are told that vampires are bad. In the same vein having Wyrm taint it's worriesome but not "kill on sight", even Garou get to smell like that from time to time.

            I would say that being a vampire and smelling like Wyrm it's marginaly worse than just being a vampire, but being a vampire it's bad enough.

            Also, magic isn't always reliable, perhaps you are masking your "odor" with some supernatural power.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Kalendeer View Post
              About high humanity vampire: if a Kindred shows as not Wyrm Tainted, would the Garou still kill on sight or would that be sort of a reason to doubt and talk?
              Circumstances dictate a lot in such a situation. Depending on how and when they encounter each other, chainsawclaws may not be an immediate option. In such cases, speaking to the vampire is hardly out of the question.

              My werewolf players encountered a newly turned vampire that was trying to help a tiny leper colony by feeding them her blood, alleviating their symptoms. Unfortunately, she would also hold back from feeding from the lepers to the degree that her willpower was gone and she was often at the point of frenzy.

              The pack didn't end up killing her, but they couldn't leave a blood-starved vampire wandering around, no matter what her intentions were. The PCs ended up staking her and leaving her torpid and locked away underground. Not sure that counts as a more merciful option, but hey, I left it up to them.


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              • #37
                Don't forget swimming. Vampires don't breathe.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Pnizzle View Post
                  Don't forget swimming. Vampires don't breathe.
                  That's not quite as good an idea as you might think, since the vampires in question could very well just sink to the bottom and run out of blood walking to the nearest shallow on the shoreline. Some Garou also have ways of bypassing this restriction, from gifts and fetishes to having a spirit relay where that blot in the Umbra is moving. You might also end up running into one of the many underwater hazards in the WoD, such as the Rokea, territorial Gangrel aquarii, or simply just diving too deep for too long such that you suffer from PIVD and all your vitae leaks out.

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                  • #39
                    Never said go the Mariana Trench. If you evade werewolves and fall into a rokea you have the worst luck on earth.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Pnizzle View Post
                      Never said go the Mariana Trench. If you evade werewolves and fall into a rokea you have the worst luck on earth.
                      It doesn't take going into a deep sea trench. PIVD starts at a mere 300 meters under the water. The average depth of the ocean is a little over twelve times this figure. Going into a trench would probably just compact a vampire, and the mechanics of vitae loss would be of a secondary concern. Also, Garou with said measures for pursuing you underwater could easily chase you into either situation.

                      As for the weresharks, given that Rokea have all of the senses available to normal sharks, but can also parse language, there's something important to note about the ocean - it's cut across by corridors of cold water that basically act as tunnels to channel sounds. Sharks can often hear of prey before scent comes into the picture, so a few choice words gurgled out during a fight can potentially bring them down upon you, especially if you happen to be near a Grotto (which, depending on its depth, might also make running into Garou likely).

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                      • #41
                        Well there's also the fact that Gangrel and Garou tend to leave each other be. (For the most part.) So unless a Gangrel gets stupidly close to one of their Cairns or does something to piss those Garou off, they'll likely leave the Gangrel alone. There's even lore somewhere regarding a secret accord that the Clan has with the Garou. Can't remember which book it's in though.

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                        • #42
                          The Gangrel being OK-ish with the werewolves is largely an early VtM thing before WtA was fully flushed out (and VtM for that matter). It was largely dropped by mid-2e because it relies entirely on VtM Lupines not being the same thing as WtA Garou. The books do have multiple examples of vampire/werewolf relations being things other than "murder on sight," but it's almost always a local thing between known entities (such as the local Cam teaming up with an urban Sept to mutually keep the far more nasty things on either side's sphere down).

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Heavy Arms View Post
                            The Gangrel being OK-ish with the werewolves is largely an early VtM thing before WtA was fully flushed out (and VtM for that matter). It was largely dropped by mid-2e because it relies entirely on VtM Lupines not being the same thing as WtA Garou. The books do have multiple examples of vampire/werewolf relations being things other than "murder on sight," but it's almost always a local thing between known entities (such as the local Cam teaming up with an urban Sept to mutually keep the far more nasty things on either side's sphere down).
                            I actually liked the first edition Gangrel Clanbook stuff on interacting with werewolves. Of course, it doesn't fit with W:tA, but I've also never thought that the various game lines should be a unified world either.

                            The material in CB Gangrel actually made interaction between vampires and werewolves an interesting possibility. Once W:tA came out, then there is very little interaction you can have that isn't "a werewolf shows up, everybody dies" and that is just bad storytelling.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Sergeant Brother View Post

                              I actually liked the first edition Gangrel Clanbook stuff on interacting with werewolves. Of course, it doesn't fit with W:tA, but I've also never thought that the various game lines should be a unified world either.

                              The material in CB Gangrel actually made interaction between vampires and werewolves an interesting possibility. Once W:tA came out, then there is very little interaction you can have that isn't "a werewolf shows up, everybody dies" and that is just bad storytelling.
                              Yeah. It's usually "a pack of werewolves shows up, everybody dies worse."

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Saur Ops Specialist View Post

                                Yeah. It's usually "a pack of werewolves shows up, everybody dies worse."
                                Right, that really isn't very useful for a vampire game. A Storyteller who introduced that wouldn't be very good. Something where there are reasons to interact or even more equality in powe levels if there is a fight would be more appropriate for a vampire game.

                                In a way, the existence of this thread is s good argument against unmodified crossover.

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